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UT Admissions, calling my shot

  • So there has been a case filed by two women that alleges that UT uses race as a deciding factor in admissions and that their civil rights have been violated. The case has hit the USSC and I don't think it looks good for the status quo (UT admissions policy). Obama's appointee Justice Kagan has to sit this one out, she was arguing in support of UT when she was solicitor general. I predict 5-3 decision in favor of the plaintiff.

    Thoughts?

    76-37-5

    ut755

  • Were they in the top 10(8)%? If they weren't, then they should shove it because they didn't cut it academically and didn't qualify automatically. I don't see how they have a case with regards to race if they weren't in the automatic qualifying bracket even if they were in the 11th percentile.

    btown1110

  • btown1110 said...

    Were they in the top 10(8)%? If they weren't, then they should shove it because they didn't cut it academically and didn't qualify automatically. I don't see how they have a case with regards to race if they weren't in the automatic qualifying bracket even if they were in the 11th percentile.

    uuummmmmm ok..

    I do know UT has prepared or filed a brief on the case.

    signature image signature image signature image

    A. Morgan. USWNT

    JeezGuy

  • JeezGuy said...

    uuummmmmm ok..

    I do know UT has prepared or filed a brief on the case.

    They filed it, arguments are soon. The ridiculously short summary is that they use race as a component for a decision, but that it is not a quota.

    76-37-5

    ut755

  • ut755 said...

    They filed it, arguments are soon. The ridiculously short summary is that they use race as a component for a decision, but that it is not a quota.

    well thats a solid argument right there.

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    A. Morgan. USWNT

    JeezGuy

  • btown1110 said...

    Were they in the top 10(8)%? If they weren't, then they should shove it because they didn't cut it academically and didn't qualify automatically. I don't see how they have a case with regards to race if they weren't in the automatic qualifying bracket even if they were in the 11th percentile.

    Finishing in the top 10% should earn an applicant points in an overall equation, but should not be an automatic qualifying factor. Not all HSs are equal academically and there are students that likely finish near 15% in their class that would finish in the top 10% of another HS.

    Using race as any sort of factor in admissions is unacceptable and I say that as a person whose child would stand to benefit if they were able to use race as a factor. America has come a very long way in kicking down racial barriers. Yet we sit here in 2012 and our own government divides us into groups based on race as if it is a good thing. IMO, we have reached a point that we will never regress as a society based on racial relations, however, we will also never break down every and all racial barriers unless we quit dividing one another into groups based upon this factor moving forward.

    Blindside77

  • I wrote a research paper on this topic in law school. The Top 10% is race neutral (other than the racial makeup of Texas highschools which is another debate for another day). However, after the Top 10%, the remaining students are evaluated on a wholistic review. Test scores, essays, and the like are looked at too. Race is a factor, but the University of Texas will argue it's not a predominate factor (following S.C. decision in Bakke and Gruter, if I remember the cases correctly).

    Following precedent, the University of Texas should have a powerful argument but the composition of the Court has changed greatly since then.

    This post was edited by Scharnell on 8/8/2012 at 12:31 PM

    Scharnell

  • Blindside77 said...

    Finishing in the top 10% should earn an applicant points in an overall equation, but should not be an automatic qualifying factor. Not all HSs are equal academically and there are students that likely finish near 15% in their class that would finish in the top 10% of another HS.

    Using race as any sort of factor in admissions is unacceptable and I say that as a person whose child would stand to benefit if they were able to use race as a factor. America has come a very long way in kicking down racial barriers. Yet we sit here in 2012 and our own government divides us into groups based on race as if it is a good thing. IMO, we have reached a point that we will never regress as a society based on racial relations, however, we will also never break down every and all racial barriers unless we quit dividing one another into groups based upon this factor moving forward.

    In one of the seminal cases on using race as a factor, I believe Ginsberg said race used as a factor should not be permanent, but hoped it was phased out in 25 years. We're approaching that number.

    This post was edited by Scharnell on 8/8/2012 at 12:31 PM

    Scharnell

  • Scharnell said...

    I wrote a research paper on this topic in law school. The Top 10% is race neutral (other than the racial makeup of Texas highschools which is another debate for another day). However, after the Top 10%, the remaining students are evaluated on a wholistic review. Test scores, essays, and the like are looked too. Race is a factor, but the University of Texas will argue it's not a predominate factor (following S.C. decision in Bakke and Gruter, if I remember the cases correctly).

    Following precedent, the University of Texas should have a powerful argument but the composition of the Court has changed greatly since then.

    5 right leaning and 3 left leaning this case, I still think UT loses this one.

    76-37-5

    ut755

  • ut755 said...

    5 right leaning and 3 left leaning this case, I still think UT loses this one.

    I understand the composition, but the Court is still limited by stare decisis (obligations to respect and follow the precedents established in prior rulings).

    That said, and I am doing this all by memory, most of the landmark decisions, Bakke, Grutter, Hopwood, etc., all had splintered decisions, and were usually controlled by a swing vote or two (no majority decision, but majority on an issue or two). Sure, if the case was heading up with no precedent, the makeup of the court would matter, but throwing in the precedents throw off that easy determination and one has to look at see what decisions in the other cases were majority and demand respect and should not be overruled vs. what was simply a plurality opinion and easily defeated. If I had more time I would look into but I have my own trials to prepare for.

    Scharnell

  • Scharnell said...

    I understand the composition, but the Court is still limited by stare decisis (obligations to respect and follow the precedents established in prior rulings).

    That said, and I am doing this all by memory, most of the landmark decisions, Bakke, Grutter, Hopwood, etc., all had splintered decisions, and were usually controlled by a swing vote or two (no majority decision, but majority on an issue or two). Sure, if the case was heading up with no precedent, the makeup of the court would matter, but throwing in the precedents throw off that easy determination and one has to look at see what decisions in the other cases were majority and demand respect and should not be overruled vs. what was simply a plurality opinion and easily defeated. If I had more time I would look into but I have my own trials to prepare for.

    Thank you for your commentary, I am a jaded cynic and am assuming the worst in my prediction. Politics >Precedent.

    76-37-5

    ut755

  • Roberts will rule it a Tax.

    In a serious vane, one of the most unfair things is that you can be in the 11% of some schools and have a better education than the top 3% of some other schools My grand daughter was admitted to a major PhD program because she is part Native American according to her. All I know is I get part of the bills.

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    You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. Never trust a man who only knows how to spell a word one way. Andrew Jackson

    JFrankWebb

  • J. Frank Webb said...

    Roberts will rule it a Tax.

    In a serious vane, one of the most unfair things is that you can be in the 11% of some schools and have a better education than the top 3% of some other schools My grand daughter was admitted to a major PhD program because she is part Native American according to her. All I know is I get part of the bills.

    My kids problems are that they weren't born amerasian and only one was a female. If these criteria are met then please move to the front of the line.
    Total disclosure here. My daughter is a Jr. at AtM. She was top 15% but.... Son is sophomore at TX state and an 8th grader with sights set on UT.

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    Fourth and five...for the win!

    demon340

  • The really sad thing is that after the $$$$ to get your children through college, and them working hard enough between pub craws to make great grades- they can not find a job.
    I know several families in that situation. My kid has a job but she graduated in the 70s.

    signature image signature image signature image

    You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. Never trust a man who only knows how to spell a word one way. Andrew Jackson

    JFrankWebb

  • J. Frank Webb said...

    The really sad thing is that after the $$$$ to get your children through college, and them working hard enough between pub craws to make great grades- they can not find a job. I know several families in that situation. My kid has a job but she graduated in the 70s.

    This is truly the greater travesty and sadly common. I remember graduating from The University with a Finance degree and walking in cold off the street to two large banks with suit on, no appointment and resume in hand and being offered by both places. My daughter, graduating number one and speaking at her college graduation ceremony struggled for several weeks before landing a poor paying job (at the time) and was happy to have it. Sadly,
    many young college grads also are strapped with huge student loans and no job to show for it.

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    Texasmdcoach

  • Scharnell said...

    I believe Ginsberg said race used as a factor should not be permanent, but hoped it was phased out in 25 years.

    Yeah it sounds like something she'd say right. But it was actually Sandra Traitor O'Connor.

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    www.thecorraliban.net

    Jexes23

  • If you want to see the racism at Texas just look at these law school applicants.

    LSAT: 167 GPA: 3.64 White Male Rejected

    LSAT: 158 GPA: 3.28 Black Female Accepted plus a $21,000 Scholarhip

    Btw, I'm not going to make it a habit to get into any of the political discussions but this isn't really political IMO, it's just blatant racism.

    University of Texas Austin - Applicants | Law School Numbers

    http://texas.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants/1112/?sort=lsat&order=desc&p=3

    texas.lawschoolnumbers.com
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    www.thecorraliban.net

    Jexes23