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Why Is Mack Brown's Texas Staff Ignoring Houston?

  • Looking at classes put together in the relative recent past, 2010-2013, a trend appears to have emerged that has me scratching my head. By my cursory review of both the classes and the targeting, it seems that Texas has made what almost feels like a conscious decision to abandon the greater Houston area in recruiting.

    "But closetojumping, how could you say such a thing!!!?!!?"

    Well, primarily because it appears to be true. Look at the data.

    In 2010, Texas signed 25 players. 4 of those players hail from the greater Houston area - Cotton, Daniels, Hopkins, Wood - that's 1 starter, 2 transfers (Wood is going to be the starter at CU, I believe), and 1 guy who appears to be iffy to ever do anything.

    In 2011, Texas signed 22 players. 7 of those players hail from the greater Houston area. - Diggs, Evans, Flowers, Greenlea, Jackson, Reed, Scott - that's 3 starters, 3 solid early contributors who may become starters, and 1 guy who apparently is iffy to hang on.

    In 2012, Texas signed 27 players. 6 of those players hail from the greater Houston area. - Brown, Cole (both from Brenham, which is a reach to call 'greater Houston area', but I'm being charitable), Blueitt (Beaumont is GHA? again, charity here), Boyette, Estelle, Johnson - it is too early to tell, but this group includes some of the best talent from the recent class.

    In 2013, Texas has 15 commitments. 2 of those players are from the greater Houston area. - D Davis, Warrick.

    Beyond the 2013 commitments, there are a couple of other targets. RSJ was a commitment, he's still a target. I consider Sealy part of Houston, but even that is somewhat questionable. Benenoch is from Katy. Prevot is in Houston. Parker is from Houston. That's about it. Maurice Smith was a target, as was Ford, so there are a couple of others who have at least heard from UT.

    Beyond who is still a target, consider that on Junior Day 1, if my glance at a list is accurate, Texas had 2 guys from Houston on the invite list - RSJ and Keith Ford. That's it. They didn't even offer Prevot, Warrick, Smith or D Davis until after Junior Day 2. The other targets they're on are of late, and those guys, not surprisingly, aren't as excited about Texas at this stage as some other schools.

    I'd be interested in hearing someone at a minimum argue the basic numbers. Texas has signed/committed 21% of its past 4 classes from "Houston". Let me help you with some arguments that won't work, so we can save ourselves some time.

    "Houston isn't producing as much talent lately."

    Incorrect. This point isn't even worth the dignity of a thorough response. Houston is one of the most talent-rich areas for football players in the entire country, which is why every other school in the damned nation is throwing bodies at trying to recruit the city. LSU and ATM are running amok down here. OU is having success, for goodness sakes. Houston is one of the fastest growing cities in the country with a booming economy, a higher than average black population, and HS football remains a dominant part of the local landscape. The talent is there.

    "Houston HS football has been corrupted."

    Willie Lyles has an analog in every major city. Nothing has changed in Houston. There are plenty of good, honest players and families looking to sign with the best possible schools.

    "Texas doesn't have as strong a brand in the Houston market."

    Houston has the highest count of Texas Exes in any city in the world not named Austin. The main competition is ATM, a distant second. LSU has emerged as a relevant brand lately, but not approaching, even remotely, the reach of UT. The professional sports focus is less in Houston than in DFW. The UT brand remains as strong as ever in Vince Young's home town.

    "Texas doesn't have the right guys focused on Houston."

    Major Applewhite is responsible for half the territory in Houston. Give me a break.

    "So what do you think it is, then, CTJ?"

    I am glad each of you asked. I think recruiting Houston takes more effort for this staff because none of them are from this city, none of them have ties to this city, and it takes as much time to visit Houston as it does DFW. A ton of the guys on staff have ties to DFW, so they spend more time there. CenTex is worse in that the talent is weaker yet it takes less time driving around Central Texas.

    I think East Texas is underrecruited for the same reasons as Houston.

    I realize that everyone wants to believe that all old habits are long gone, but I don't believe that the neglect to the Houston market from Mack Brown and his staff justifies folks fully believing that everything is fixed. I realize that this staff busts its ass in recruiting. Well and good. How about busting it in the right places? A little more time in UT's backyard and a little less time gallivanting around the SEC footprint is warranted. If Giles isn't the guy for half the market down here, then change that too. It's past the point of needing attention.

    I am interested in counterpoints or alternative issues that I've missed or failed to mention. Hell, tell me that some data point somewhere tells a different story and that the efforts in Houston are perfectly fine. I am willing to hear pretty much anything, but what I'd like to hear is that Mack Brown has been given some smelling salts and is going to cover Houston better in 2014 and beyond.

    This post was edited by close to jumping on 6/15/2012 at 5:19 PM

    close to jumping

  • I have a guess

    maninblack1

  • close to jumping said...

    Looking at classes put together in the relative recent past, 2010-2013, a trend appears to have emerged that has me scratching my head. By my cursory review of both the classes and the targeting, it seems that Texas has made what almost feels like a conscious decision to abandon the greater Houston area in recruiting.

    "But closetojumping, how could you say such a thing!!!?!!?"

    Well, primarily because it appears to be true. Look at the data.

    In 2010, Texas signed 25 players. 4 of those players hail from the greater Houston area - Cotton, Daniels, Hopkins, Wood - that's 1 starter, 2 transfers (Wood is going to be the starter at CU, I believe), and 1 guy who appears to be iffy to ever do anything.

    In 2011, Texas signed 22 players. 7 of those players hail from the greater Houston area. - Diggs, Evans, Flowers, Greenlea, Jackson, Reed, Scott - that's 3 starters, 3 solid early contributors who may become starters, and 1 guy who apparently is iffy to hang on.

    In 2012, Texas signed 27 players. 6 of those players hail from the greater Houston area. - Brown, Cole (both from Brenham, which is a reach to call 'greater Houston area', but I'm being charitable), Blueitt (Beaumont is GHA? again, charity here), Boyette, Estelle, Johnson - it is too early to tell, but this group includes some of the best talent from the recent class.

    In 2013, Texas has 15 commitments. 2 of those players are from the greater Houston area. - D Davis, Warrick.

    Beyond the 2013 commitments, there are a couple of other targets. RSJ was a commitment, he's still a target. I consider Sealy part of Houston, but even that is somewhat questionable. Benenoch is from Katy. Prevot is in Houston. Parker is from Houston. That's about it. Maurice Smith was a target, as was Ford, so there are a couple of others who have at least heard from UT.

    Beyond who is still a target, consider that on Junior Day 1, if my glance at a list is accurate, Texas had 2 guys from Houston on the invite list - RSJ and Keith Ford. That's it. They didn't even offer Prevot, Warrick, Smith or D Davis until after Junior Day 2. The other targets they're on are of late, and those guys, not surprisingly, aren't as excited about Texas at this stage as some other schools.

    I'd be interested in hearing someone at a minimum argue the basic numbers. Texas has signed/committed 21% of its past 4 classes from "Houston". Let me help you with some arguments that won't work, so we can save ourselves some time.

    "Houston isn't producing as much talent lately."

    Incorrect. This point isn't even worth the dignity of a thorough response. Houston is one of the most talent-rich areas for football players in the entire country, which is why every other school in the damned nation is throwing bodies at trying to recruit the city. LSU and ATM are running amok down here. OU is having success, for goodness sakes. Houston is one of the fastest growing cities in the country with a booming economy, a higher than average black population, and HS football remains a dominant part of the local landscape. The talent is there.

    "Houston HS football has been corrupted."

    Willie Lyles has an analog in every major city. Nothing has changed in Houston. There are plenty of good, honest players and families looking to sign with the best possible schools.

    "Texas doesn't have as strong a brand in the Houston market."

    Houston has the highest count of Texas Exes in any city in the world not named Austin. The main competition is ATM, a distant second. LSU has emerged as a relevant brand lately, but not approaching, even remotely, the reach of UT. The professional sports focus is less in Houston than in DFW. The UT brand remains as strong as ever in Vince Young's home town.

    "Texas doesn't have the right guys focused on Houston."

    Major Applewhite is responsible for half the territory in Houston. Give me a break.

    "So what do you think it is, then, CTJ?"

    I am glad each of you asked. I think recruiting Houston takes more effort for this staff because none of them are from this city, none of them have ties to this city, and it takes as much time to visit Houston as it does DFW. A ton of the guys on staff have ties to DFW, so they spend more time there. CenTex is worse in that the talent is weaker yet it takes less time driving around Central Texas.

    I think East Texas is underrecruited for the same reasons as Houston.

    I realize that everyone wants to believe that all old habits are long gone, but I don't believe that the neglect to the Houston market from Mack Brown and his staff justifies folks fully believing that everything is fixed. I realize that this staff busts its ass in recruiting. Well and good. How about busting it in the right places? A little more time in UT's backyard and a little less time gallivanting around the SEC footprint is warranted. If Giles isn't the guy for half the market down here, then change that too. It's past the point of needing attention.

    I am interested in counterpoints or alternative issues that I've missed or failed to mention. Hell, tell me that some data point somewhere tells a different story and that the efforts in Houston are perfectly fine. I am willing to hear pretty much anything, but what I'd like to hear is that Mack Brown has been given some smelling salts and is going to cover Houston better in 2014 and beyond.

    I would love to offer counterpoints, but I can't. I agree with you 100%. I have LONG felt that UT (recruiting) and the Big XII in general (events not being held in Houston often enough) place no emphasis on the area at all. Can't think of another state flagship university or conference that ignore the largest city in its footprint the way UT and the Big XII do.

    maceoa9903

  • Uhm, doesn't Bo Davis have ties at North Shore?

    Not disputing your other arguments, just this one small point.

    ChampKind

  • What schools in that same time frame are getting more Houston and East Texas recruits than UT?

    I agree UT should recruit the area harder but is there someone out there cleaning up?

    PDX Horn

  • PDX Horn said...

    What schools in that same time frame are getting more Houston and East Texas recruits than UT?

    I agree UT should recruit the area harder but is there someone out there cleaning up?

    I don't think its an issue of anyone else cleaning up in the area as much as it is UT not solidifying the area as its territory the way it should. I can't think of one true pipeline school for UT in the Greater Houston area. I can rattle off 4 w/o much thought in the DFW area.

    maceoa9903

  • I think they probably will catch some tropical disease from the swamp that Houston is built on. Either going to Houston or DFW and the choice is clear.

    Lateral

  • Now more than ever the Houston area should be seen as a battleground for the Texas Football staff. With A&M's move to the SEC it looks like they are doing the right (shocking, I know) thing and targeting Houston. LSU will make their presence there even more known than it is already now that aggy opened upon the door to the state with their conference switch. Bama, Arkansas, and plenty others will soon be invading the Houston area, if not already, to get a piece of the pie too.

    If LSU and A&M ever schedule a "neutral site" game at Reliant for recruiting purposes, it'll get real interesting.

    Great post and topic for discussion ctj.

    Black Shipley

  • Questions like "Why doesn't Texas recruit X?" are always going to be in vogue, whether x is a particular recruit, locale, position, or recruiting style. Such questions presuppose that our recruiting, against the constraints of record and manpower, has been wanting. The simple truth is that Texas is getting basically who we want, by focusing on the places where our returns are the best, and supplementing as needed.

    Could we do better? Well, yes. Everyone could. But the last two classes have been basically limited based on our complete staff overhaul, and still we've secured top classes both years, getting mostly who we've wanted.

    I think that making the case that diluting the staff's areas in the most talent rich and productive geographies would yield better results is a difficult one, but more power to you.

    bat

  • Agree with your premise completely. However, I would consider that Texas has missed greatly in East Texas as well.

    The 2011 class was basically set before the retooling of the staff. The 2012 class had some success but also played to some comfort areas due to the staff. 2013 is light and in looking at the 2014 Top 100 right now, there are only 2 from the Houston area on that list.

    With all this, Texas needs to devote more time to developing relationships with the Houston HS coaches and I would encourage Mack to consider the next asst coach to be hired from the greater Houston area to jump start their presence. This as well as developing several area satellite camps to see more kids and more coaches would go a long way to kids and their coaches thinking Texas first.

    While I would not want to abandon going after a SE kid if he is a big target, I would rather spend the resources in Houston and East Texas while expanding any OOS resources to northern LA, Cali, AZ and maybe Las Vegas and develop some ties in KC or STL.

    Bottom line to a long winded answer, we should swarm the coastal plains as we would North Texas and the results will bear fruit.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Bandit18

  • So this what you have been doing since your last rant.

    signature image signature image signature image

    A. Morgan. USWNT

    JeezGuy

  • The only thing I can possibly think of is that possibly the staff wanted to expand it's recruiting base so they could evaluate kids from as many places as possible in order to try to focus on those potential blue chippers from places other than Houston.

    2010 - 16%
    2011- 32%
    2012 - 22%
    2013 - 13% ( 19% if RSJ recommits, 24% if Benenoch joins, 27% if Prevot comes in with the previous two, and 32% if Parker joins the previous 3 and no one else commits)

    At the moment with 13% of the class from GHA it's a pretty severe dropoff from the previous two seasons but even if one of the above 4 guys commits and no one else does then those numbers go up and start trending along with the previous couple of seasons.

    signature image signature image signature image

    XoGisele

    BuddyHolly

  • ZFM_\\m//_504 said...

    The only thing I can possibly think of is that possibly the staff wanted to expand it's recruiting base so they could evaluate kids from as many places as possible in order to try to focus on those potential blue chippers from places other than Houston.

    2010 - 16%
    2011- 32%
    2012 - 22%
    2013 - 13% ( 19% if RSJ recommits, 24% if Benenoch joins, 27% if Prevot comes in with the previous two, and 32% if Parker joins the previous 3 and no one else commits)

    At the moment with 13% of the class from GHA it's a pretty severe dropoff from the previous two seasons but even if one of the above 4 guys commits and no one else does then those numbers go up and start trending along with the previous couple of seasons.

    Although if your argument is that even those numbers are still too low then those numbers mean nothing haha

    signature image signature image signature image

    XoGisele

    BuddyHolly

  • Black Shipley said...

    Now more than ever the Houston area should be seen as a battleground for the Texas Football staff. With A&M's move to the SEC it looks like they are doing the right (shocking, I know) thing and targeting Houston. LSU will make their presence there even more known than it is already now that aggy opened upon the door to the state with their conference switch. Bama, Arkansas, and plenty others will soon be invading the Houston area, if not already, to get a piece of the pie too.

    If LSU and A&M ever schedule a "neutral site" game at Reliant for recruiting purposes, it'll get real interesting.

    Great post and topic for discussion ctj.

    You can believe that the SEC will put a "neutral site" game in Houston in the next 3-4 years. Don't be surprised if its the kickoff classic. That was my point that I was trying to add earlier in that the Big XII has not made Houston a "Big XII city" and I think we are about to see the fruit of that mistake with the SEC in town now. Houston is about to become a battle ground for the two leauges.

    maceoa9903

  • I've written some articles about this in recent months.

    I feel like Houston and East Texas are under recruited while the Metroplex and Central Texas are overrecruited. I believe Mack thinks Dallas is more of a battleground area because Oklahoma is so close. I don't subscribe to that argument but I've heard it made.

    Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BobbyBurton247

    BobbyBurton

  • BobbyBurton said...

    I believe Mack thinks Dallas is more of a battleground area because Oklahoma is so close. I don't subscribe to that argument but I've heard it made.

    I think it was, no so much anymore. Oklahoma has now gone nationally and isn't recruiting the Metroplex as hard. Houston is the new battleground, probably worse because TAMU and LSU are both there.

    Mack will just have to adjust somehow to find the right balance.

    Texas Flood ●

  • bat said...

    Questions like "Why doesn't Texas recruit X?" are always going to be in vogue, whether x is a particular recruit, locale, position, or recruiting style. Such questions presuppose that our recruiting, against the constraints of record and manpower, has been wanting. The simple truth is that Texas is getting basically who we want, by focusing on the places where our returns are the best, and supplementing as needed.

    Could we do better? Well, yes. Everyone could. But the last two classes have been basically limited based on our complete staff overhaul, and still we've secured top classes both years, getting mostly who we've wanted.

    I think that making the case that diluting the staff's areas in the most talent rich and productive geographies would yield better results is a difficult one, but more power to you.


    I think asking why they're not doing much pertaining to one of the 4 biggest recruiting hotbeds in the country, which sits in their own backyard, is a bit different than lamenting anything about a particular recruit somewhere.

    I also fail to understand your statement about talent rich and productive geographies being something they'd pull off of to pursue Houston better. They are a mile wide and an inch deep if they're visiting various areas in the Southeast versus focusing that time and energy in Houston, which is closer to home, better aligned, and just as rich in talent as anywhere else.

    close to jumping

  • ZFM_\\m//_504 said...

    The only thing I can possibly think of is that possibly the staff wanted to expand it's recruiting base so they could evaluate kids from as many places as possible in order to try to focus on those potential blue chippers from places other than Houston.

    2010 - 16% 2011- 32% 2012 - 22% 2013 - 13% ( 19% if RSJ recommits, 24% if Benenoch joins, 27% if Prevot comes in with the previous two, and 32% if Parker joins the previous 3 and no one else commits)

    At the moment with 13% of the class from GHA it's a pretty severe dropoff from the previous two seasons but even if one of the above 4 guys commits and no one else does then those numbers go up and start trending along with the previous couple of seasons.


    In understand what you're saying, but my point is that the current percentages need improvement across the whole set of classes. The 2011 at 32% with some real studs seems like a better balance.

    Overall, if Texas spent more time in Houston, the Golden Triangle, and East Texas instead of taking easier targets in CenTex and chasing smoke in the Sec footprint, the program would be better served.

    close to jumping

  • BobbyBurton said...

    I've written some articles about this in recent months.

    I feel like Houston and East Texas are under recruited while the Metroplex and Central Texas are overrecruited. I believe Mack thinks Dallas is more of a battleground area because Oklahoma is so close. I don't subscribe to that argument but I've heard it made.

    I've read your stuff and agree. I've been lamenting it the same way and plan to keep doing so until I bore myself of it, I guess.

    close to jumping

  • I don't know why their recruiting efforts aren't split something like:

    40% DFW
    40% Houston
    10% other parts of Texas
    10% out of state

    It's mind bottling.

    This post was edited by Rivver on 6/15/2012 at 8:01 PM

    Rivver

  • BobbyBurton said...

    I've written some articles about this in recent months.

    I feel like Houston and East Texas are under recruited while the Metroplex and Central Texas are overrecruited. I believe Mack thinks Dallas is more of a battleground area because Oklahoma is so close. I don't subscribe to that argument but I've heard it made.

    Well Mack might want to rethink that. Clearly we have to play Oklahoma every year and they have never done that well in Houston. That makes a focus on Dallas logical because we are getting good players and keeping kids away from them at the same time. But the SEC in general and LSU and Alabama in particular appear to be focusing a lot more on Houston and there is just too much talent there to ignore. No Vince Young for instance and Mack's legacy at Texas looks a lot different.

    Crazy Horn

  • Ok, name which 2013 UT commits you would replace with which Houston kids.

    "I've heard some of our fans say, 'We were always an SEC school. We just didn't know it," athletic director Bill Byrne said.

    Bevo52

  • Bevo52 said...

    Ok, name which 2013 UT commits you would replace with which Houston kids.

    The point is not the 2013 class. It is what seems to be a trend at Texas over several years not to put as many resources in Houston, the Golden Triangle and East Texas as they do in other areas. This is perplexing due to the fact that data over the long haul show those to be the most talent rich sections of the state. The Houston area in particular is a top 2 NFL player producing city. Why does the flagship university of the state not rule that area with an iron fist is more of the question ctj is putting forth.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by maceoa9903 on 6/15/2012 at 8:51 PM

    maceoa9903

  • Bevo52 said...

    Ok, name which 2013 UT commits you would replace with which Houston kids.

    I would have preferred Maurice Smith to the safety from Cibolo or Antwuan Davis although in the latter case only because of health concerns.

    Crazy Horn

  • Oklahoma State has done more in Houston and East Texas than the Horns have in recent years. That's just an example of a single team focusing more on the two areas IMO and having success. There are others.

    Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BobbyBurton247

    BobbyBurton

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