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What do people think about OKC trading "the Beard" to Houston?

  • DCTexasEx said...

    How do the Rockets have bad contracts? They will be able to sign another max contract next yr. They seem to be in a pretty good position contract wise, seems like they have a good deal of flexibility going forward. Lin and Asik aren't close to max contracts. The rest of the team are pretty much on their first contracts.

    The picks the Rockets gave up are the almost certainly the dreaded middle of the round picks you just described. If the Rockets absolutely suck they will keep their own pick, it's top 14 protected. The Raptors pick that they gave up will most likely be at the back end of the lottery.

    This move was made for the very reason you stated, you either have to be at the top or bottom, the middle is purgatory. They now have a player who they can build around. I'm not totally enamored with Lin, but he can be a good piece around Harden. Asik gives them good rebounding and D. They still have a lot of needs, but have a very young team and salary cap room to go with a star player that other players respect and will want to play with.

    My opinion is that Harden is not a player you build around but rather a supporting cast member and thus a max contract for him = a bad contract.
    And Lin's contract is not a good contract.
    I would say that is the general consensus around the league.
    In 2014 it is going to be dicey as well when Lin, Asik, Harden and free agent X are making over ten million dollars a year.
    I don't know what GM around the league when thinking of the core of a championship team would pick those three players plus a free agent to be.
    That is basically your entire salary structure and say hello to the lux tax.

    signature image signature image signature image

    clacknasty

  • clacknasty said...

    My opinion is that Harden is not a player you build around but rather a supporting cast member and thus a max contract for him = a bad contract. And Lin's contract is not a good contract. I would say that is the general consensus around the league. In 2014 it is going to be dicey as well when Lin, Asik, Harden and free agent X are making over ten million dollars a year. I don't know what GM around the league when thinking of the core of a championship team would pick those three players plus a free agent to be. That is basically your entire salary structure and say hello to the lux tax.

    You are wrong about Lin and Asik's contracts. They are averaged out over the 3 years. So for Salary and Luxury cap purposes they only count $8M in 2014.

    NLeininger

  • clacknasty said...

    My opinion is that Harden is not a player you build around but rather a supporting cast member and thus a max contract for him = a bad contract.
    And Lin's contract is not a good contract.
    I would say that is the general consensus around the league.
    In 2014 it is going to be dicey as well when Lin, Asik, Harden and free agent X are making over ten million dollars a year.
    I don't know what GM around the league when thinking of the core of a championship team would pick those three players plus a free agent to be.
    That is basically your entire salary structure and say hello to the lux tax.

    We differ on how good Harden will be. I agree they need more, definitely have to add a star pf or sf. I'm not sure who that would be based on the list of pending free agents. I honestly don't see one who I think gets them what they need. I do believe that the right star 3 or 4 will put them in contention if the young guys develop.

    I don't see contracts as an issue for two reasons: 1. The existing contracts are favorable (NL addressed this already) and; 2. I believe Les will pay the tax if need be to get a title.

    Honestly, it's exciting to even be having this discussion.

    DCTexasEx

  • Who are they going to sign that is going to keep them out of the middle of the league?

    Josh Smith doesn't make you a title contender. Howard would but I don't think he will come to Houston. Who else will be available?

    HoopsCoach

  • NLeininger said...

    You are wrong about Lin and Asik's contracts. They are averaged out over the 3 years. So for Salary and Luxury cap purposes they only count $8M in 2014.

    OK I will take your word for it.
    Hoops Hype has it as like 14 for the last season.
    Either way pretty big dollars for those two IMO.

    signature image signature image signature image

    clacknasty

  • The Rockets cleaned up. The dumb move was already made by the Thunder betting on Westbrook though so I guess they were trying to get the best they could.

    maninblack1

  • HoopsCoach said...

    Who are they going to sign that is going to keep them out of the middle of the league?

    Josh Smith doesn't make you a title contender. Howard would but I don't think he will come to Houston. Who else will be available?

    Not sure who you are directing your question to, but I clearly agree with you. Morey is going to have to find a way to get someone via trade or something because the FA market just isn't going to yield what they need.

    Here's the list if you care to look.

    2013 NBA Free Agents | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors

    The following lists the 2013 free-agent class by position, followed by their 2012-13 salary.  A free agent becomes be restricted when their team issues a

    www.hoopsworld.com

    DCTexasEx

  • JKates said...

    I can't believe OKC let him go without trying to make another run with him.

    I believe that Hardin turned down an offer from OKC that would have paid him $13 million per year. After that, they had little choice but to maximize the return and let him go. They will miss his scoring though.

    texaztom

  • texaztom said...

    I believe that Hardin turned down an offer from OKC that would have paid him $13 million per year. After that, they had little choice but to maximize the return and let him go. They will miss his scoring though.

    just now reading this thread, I was wondering if anyone noticed that Harden turned down $13 million. I'm always a day late watching games, and I saw that he turned down the offer flash on the ticker, then later in the OU game it flashed he was traded. Sounds like OKC was pretty much forced to get some value.

    rantanamo

  • clacknasty said...

    The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle. You want to be really good and competing for championships or really bad so you can have a chance to draft the franchise player. When you are in the middle you give guys max or close to max contracts who aren't franchise guys and you basically ensure that your team will always be in the middle. Now IMO the Rockets are set to be in the middle for quite some time with no draft picks and ultimately bad to poor contracts.

    Who knows how it will work out, but I'm not sure the first and second halves of your post fit together. Morey knows perfectly well the issues with being in the middle, but for the longest time he couldn't get Les on board with tanking to get really bad. He finally got permission with the caveat being the point of trading everything away was to go after Dwight Howard and if that didn't work, then you'd be at the bottom, so win-win. The trade for Harden is the same package they had offered for Howard and with Harden, you have a guaranteed long term deal where there was a decent chance Howard wouldn't have re-signed. So who knows how it will work out, but the Rockets have been making every move, including this one, specifically to stop being in the middle.

    DLev ●

  • Here's a Simmons article on why the Thunder should've resigned Harden and how the arguments against are mostly fairy tale stuff. It's Simmons so it's long but well worth the read. Basically the Rockets fleeced the Thunder.

    The Thunder need to pay James Harden now - Grantland

    The Thunder claiming they are just a poor, small-market team that can't afford James Harden doesn't work in today's NBA.

    www.grantland.com

    maninblack1

  • I'll also say that for all the love Presti gets the real genius (Popovich/Buford) is still in San Antonio. Presti is largely overrated by the masses in my opinion.

    maninblack1

  • I still have a bad taste in my mouth about this. Here's a really god Zach Lowe column today analyzing the whole thing.

    A look at Oklahoma City's trade of James Harden to the Houston Rockets - Grantland

    Examining Oklahoma City's risky move and the beginning of the James Harden era in Houston.

    www.grantland.com
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    Canadianhorn

  • Harden wasn't going to sign for any less than the max. He most likely was going to walk next year. Plus okc didn't want Harden talk hanging over them all year. Don't think it was a bad deal. At some point these thing became certainties to Presti. Had to make a move.

    COACH CUTLIP ●

  • maninblack1 said...

    I'll also say that for all the love Presti gets the real genius (Popovich/Buford) is still in San Antonio. Presti is largely overrated by the masses in my opinion.

    How so?

    COACH CUTLIP ●

  • COACH CUTLIP said...

    How so?

    How so what?

    maninblack1

  • How is he overrated?

    COACH CUTLIP ●

  • COACH CUTLIP said...

    How is he overrated?

    Depends on how you view him but most people that I've talked to see him as some savant which he's not. If you see him as a decent GM than you're not overrating him.

    maninblack1

  • He got several high draft picks right in a row, which is tougher to do than you would think. And he got some key big men through trades. Not sure what there is no to like. Basically every team in the lower half of the NBA, except for Houston, has had top 5 picks and not come up with one of Durant, Westbrook, or Harden. He came up with three.

    DLev ●

  • Durant wasn't a decision, it was obvious. Every GM in the business takes him there. Presti gets zero credit for that pick.

    Every NBA trade you evaluate who got the best player. Not scrubs like Kevin Martin. Unless Lamb is some unknown badass, Houston did well. But Okie did fine too -- because they weren't going to keep Harden. Could be one of those win-win deals.

    Randy Watson

  • Randy Watson said...

    Durant wasn't a decision, it was obvious. Every GM in the business takes him there. Presti gets zero credit for that pick.

    Every NBA trade you evaluate who got the best player. Not scrubs like Kevin Martin. Unless Lamb is some unknown badass, Houston did well. But Okie did fine too -- because they weren't going to keep Harden. Could be one of those win-win deals.

    Durant also fell into his lap. Portland was the team that censored that draft up by taking Oden #1. Presti would have already been fired had Portland taken Durant #1 overall.

    NLeininger

  • I'd argue the Thunder got incredible value, given the circumstances.

    The Thunder organization would have been financially crippled had they given the max contract to Harden--I disagree with Simmons take on that point.

    Harden is a role player on the Thunder. Yes, he's a great one, but a role player nonetheless. They replace him with a young talent in Lamb, another good (not great) role player in Martin, and future draft picks. Thats pretty damn good.

    Having said that, as a Thunder fan I'm disappointed to see Harden go. I think he'll probably regret it, too.

    merelonghorn

  • Read Simmons article.

    maninblack1

  • merelonghorn said...

    I'd argue the Thunder got incredible value, given the circumstances.

    The Thunder organization would have been financially crippled had they given the max contract to Harden--I disagree with Simmons take on that point.

    Harden is a role player on the Thunder. Yes, he's a great one, but a role player nonetheless. They replace him with a young talent in Lamb, another good (not great) role player in Martin, and future draft picks. Thats pretty damn good.

    Having said that, as a Thunder fan I'm disappointed to see Harden go. I think he'll probably regret it, too.

    I agree completely. Now one the best GMs in the league has 2 top 10 players. A defensive monster on the back end, two very talented, athletic rookies, expiring contracts and 3 additional draft picks. One possibly being as high a 4 next year. Good times to be a Thunder fan.

    COACH CUTLIP ●

  • Dp

    This post was edited by COACH CUTLIP on 10/29/2012 at 4:53 PM

    COACH CUTLIP ●

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