Horns247 Board

OK, what do you think it is?

No doubt, they've blown games they should have won. But they were competitive with UNC, Michigan State, UCLA, KU. None of those other teams you listed has hung multiple times with teams like those.

Barnes has become Penders except with less alcohol stink and more lizard lip licking (from Shaggy):

Rick's last 4 1/2 seasons and Penders' last 5:

NCAA tournament appearances: Penders - 4; Barnes - 4

NCAA tournament wins: Penders - 5; Barnes - 2

Conference winning %: Penders - 66.2% (49-25); Barnes - 58.0% (40-29)

Seasons ranked at end of year: Penders - 3; Barnes - 2

No numbers comparison will cause me to equate Tom Penders and Rick Barnes.

Bob, you seem to be probably the biggest Barnes supporter on this board. Please don't take this the wrong way as I am legitimately interested in your opinion: what is it about Coach Barnes that has you so strongly in his corner? Is it the fact that he has taken the basketball program to new heights, his coaching style, where the team is currently headed...? Again, I'm not trying to call you out, I just want to try and understand all perspectives. Thanks.

Not what I asked. If we had a senior that could back up Felix for 12 minutes a game that would be huge. Doesn't matter if they start, they play.

Find a team that has ZERO Juniors or Seniors. Then let me know how many conference games they have won.

I laughed

St. John's is 3-3 in the Big East.

Hard for me to say it all briefly, since I need to be brief but...

Even if I accept all the arguments that Barnes has done a poor job with this team or over the last five years, that he managed the roster poorly, or even that the game has passed him by, in my own mind I can't justify firing a guy who has essentially failed once (this year) in 15 years. And this year ain't over.

If S16s, EEs, FFs are required, every coach is liable to be fired most years. It's like saying Coach K gets an A, Self gets an A-, Roy Williams and Tom Izzo get a B+, Calipari gets a B, and everyone else gets an F.

I know, he makes a lot of money (I'd argue that he has earned it), and people want to dump him because he hasn't met the standard to which he personally raised the program. But firing him for one bad year, because it's the bottom of a bad trend, to me, that's profoundly stupid. Next year's team will be a lot better. Think about Baylor -- I don't think much of Scott Drew's coaching, but he has two EEs the last three years because he's been able to put good young talent next to experienced players. I expect he got that model from watching Bill Self, Barnes, any other coach of a regular member of the top 15. Given at least one more year, Barnes will be able to do it again, too.

I do have significant issues with his coaching philosophy right now. I really don't know how he'll do the next time he has a good team (and he will). He's a control freak's control freak on the bench. But I wouldn't want to have to justify firing him to the guy that I want to hire to replace him.

Am I missing something here? St. John's has 3 Seniors and a Junior. Plus, 2 sophomores in their 3rd year.

To get back to the problem of executing at the end of games has anyone, other than the usual basketball posters thought that this season could be attributed to

1) Having a freshman pg
2) Only having one pg

Then when you add those 2 factors together, with the fact that the entire team is young, you are going to have end of game issues. We recruited Felix to play 10 min. a game this season while he learned the ropes. Instead he has played more minutes than any other freshman in the country. He's probably exhausted in crunch time. At the very least he's mentally fatigued.

Only one of the seniors has played, and that was for a total of 3 minutes thus far for the entire season. Dean Melchionni has played 4 minutes for Texas so far. St. John's is 3-3 in the Big East and has ZERO juniors or seniors (in the same regard that Texas has zero juniors or seniors).

St. John's and Texas have quite similar rosters, and similar results, considering that St. John's beat Baylor soundly,Texas beat North Carolina soundly, St. John's beat Cincinnati and ND in close games, and Texas let a couple of wins over UCLA and KU get away.

And for what it's worth, Jeff Sagarin has Texas a couple of notches above St. John's, and Ken Pomeroy and Team Rankings have Texas in the 80s and SJU around 110.

Not winning a conference game is looking at the surface.

You mean Baylor clobbered St. John's.

St. John's also lost to San Francisco (1-5 in the WCC) by 16, to Murray State by 5 (blowing a 7 point lead with 7 minutes left), to UNC-Asheville by 7, and was pounded by 12 points in OT by a bad Villanova team.

All one can really say about St. John's is that it gives very inconsistent play.