Online Now 967

Horns247 Board

The place to talk about the Texas Longhorns

On this Board 544
Record: 4156 (12/1/2012)

Online now 828
Record: 7224 (2/22/2012)

Boards ▾

Horns247 Board

The place to talk about the Texas Longhorns

6th Street

The place for off topic discussion on Hookem

Reply

Snap judgments - Bad loss

  • Crazy Horn said...

    I am a retired banker. First thing you learn is you don't lend the money to the people you like. You lend it to the people who know what they are doing. Those are the ones that can pay you back.

    I like Mack Brown but he doesn't know how to fix this. That is the third game this year (OU and KU) that our guys have come out listless and unprepared. They weren't read to play and that should never, ever happen. And it wasn't just the defense. It was the whole team.

    Right. And Bobby didn't lend Manny the money. He simply said he didn't enjoy rejecting him

    Redbandito25

  • I would add the dropped TD by Davis on a perfectly thrown ball by Ash with 9 minutes or so left in the 3rd quarter.

    BoomFC

  • First off I dont think you can pinpoint a reason for the loss. I can not think of one player that played well. Even the fans sucked. DKR was as quiet as I ever heard it. This was a complete failure. Texas did not come out ready to play. Mack did not have them ready to play. Diaz and Hasin failed with game plans. Trying to make sense of this loss is a fools game.

    Codaxx

  • I'm a really not sure what people were expecting. TCU plays good defense, has a strong defensive line, rallies to the ball and tackles well. And when they force you to throw they are able to confuse you qb with their 4-2-5 by being able to divide the field and play zone on one side while playing man on the other. There was a reason we had so much presnap motion last night. Harsin was trying to force the Frogs to tip their hand.

    Offensively they have good skill position players and an elusive QB who struggles to throw the ball well. We won a Rose bowl with that combo. Give them a better offensive line and they could be a real challenge for most teams. They weren't facing most teams. They were facing our porous run defense.

    Everyone should have expected us to struggle offensively. Take away our red zone turnovers and or convince Mike Davis to catch the ball on the slant at the goal line and the game has a different complexion on offense. Defensively, well you could kind of smell that coming too. The same two back look and motion out of the backfield to leave Edmond alone in the middle stumped our defense yet again, and we don't have a player on D who's able to contain Boykin athletically apparently.

    Just a real sh*t show all around, and not one that was terribly surprising either. The stadium attendance and fan participation last night are indicative of the rudderless malaise our program is in. People can weather multi year rebuilds. That can actually be fun and satisfying as a team shows growth. We're taking some steps forward on offense, but clearly aren't there yet. Defensively, well, I can't even summon angst anymore. Just resignation.

    I got brains. I got big ol' brains. I got dinosaur brains.

    Bobby_Batronic

  • BoomFC said...

    I would add the dropped TD by Davis on a perfectly thrown ball by Ash with 9 minutes or so left in the 3rd quarter.

    Pretty interesting to me was watching Mike Davis on the replay of that play and the next play (where he was targeted in the end zone, but it was a bad pass)...in both cases, Davis was tip-toeing through the TCU zone defense, looking for where the hit would be coming from - not looking like a guy who wanted to have the ball thrown to him. The dropped TD pass in particular.

    Racer X

  • Bobby_Batronic said...

    I'm a really not sure what people were expecting. TCU plays good defense, has a strong defensive line, rallies to the ball and tackles well. And when they force you to throw they are able to confuse you qb with their 4-2-5 by being able to divide the field and play zone on one side while playing man on the other. There was a reason we had so much presnap motion last night. Harsin was trying to force the Frogs to tip their hand.

    Offensively they have good skill position players and an elusive QB who struggles to throw the ball well. We won a Rose bowl with that combo. Give them a better offensive line and they could be a real challenge for most teams. They weren't facing most teams. They were facing our porous run defense.

    Everyone should have expected us to struggle offensively. Take away our red zone turnovers and or convince Mike Davis to catch the ball on the slant at the goal line and the game has a different complexion on offense. Defensively, well you could kind of smell that coming too. The same two back look and motion out of the backfield to leave Edmond alone in the middle stumped our defense yet again, and we don't have a player on D who's able to contain Boykin athletically apparently.

    Just a real sh*t show all around, and not one that was terribly surprising either. The stadium attendance and fan participation last night are indicative of the rudderless malaise our program is in. People can weather multi year rebuilds. That can actually be fun and satisfying as a team shows growth. We're taking some steps forward on offense, but clearly aren't there yet. Defensively, well, I can't even summon angst anymore. Just resignation.

    i think that sums it up. Resignation. Fans were not even mad at the game, at least where I was sitting. There was not a feeling of shock or anger, just acceptance. Resigned to accept the fate of the where the program is at. I can not think of a sadder state of affairs.

    Codaxx

  • BobbyBurton said...

    I don't like saying this, but you have to change DCs. I don't think it's even a question after this.

    It's the same thing he did against Iowa State and other games this year but this time he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar one too many times.

    You just don't have to play that kind of risky defense to win against some teams. It's absolutely counter productive.

    Probably correct on DC but this loss is firmly on the shoulders of ASH and the O-line. This team is not good enough to have a QB and o-line play poorly and still win. Searles has done wonders with the misfits that he has been dealt but they still are lacking. And the QB situation at Texas is abysmal. Out of all the great Texas highschool QBs to recruit, we ended up with two subpar performers or our coaches lack the ability to develop QBs! Case made the wrong decision when he decided to stay at Texas, he would have been better served to drop down where there is comparable talent IMO. And for those who say Ash is the 9th rated QB in the country, I say look at the defenses that he garnered those stats against. There are no impressive wins on his résumé. Ciao

    hornsrus

  • BoomFC said...

    I would add the dropped TD by Davis on a perfectly thrown ball by Ash with 9 minutes or so left in the 3rd quarter.

    He may have been shocked to see a perfectly thrown ball thus rendering him incapable of a catch.

    hornsrus

  • Bobby_Batronic said...

    I'm a really not sure what people were expecting. TCU plays good defense, has a strong defensive line, rallies to the ball and tackles well. And when they force you to throw they are able to confuse you qb with their 4-2-5 by being able to divide the field and play zone on one side while playing man on the other. There was a reason we had so much presnap motion last night. Harsin was trying to force the Frogs to tip their hand.

    Offensively they have good skill position players and an elusive QB who struggles to throw the ball well. We won a Rose bowl with that combo. Give them a better offensive line and they could be a real challenge for most teams. They weren't facing most teams. They were facing our porous run defense.

    Everyone should have expected us to struggle offensively. Take away our red zone turnovers and or convince Mike Davis to catch the ball on the slant at the goal line and the game has a different complexion on offense. Defensively, well you could kind of smell that coming too. The same two back look and motion out of the backfield to leave Edmond alone in the middle stumped our defense yet again, and we don't have a player on D who's able to contain Boykin athletically apparently.

    Just a real sh*t show all around, and not one that was terribly surprising either. The stadium attendance and fan participation last night are indicative of the rudderless malaise our program is in. People can weather multi year rebuilds. That can actually be fun and satisfying as a team shows growth. We're taking some steps forward on offense, but clearly aren't there yet. Defensively, well, I can't even summon angst anymore. Just resignation.

    I predicted TCU would win 27-20 in the predictions thread. I'm still waiting to hear if I win a prize or something.

    That's exactly how i saw the game too. TCU is so well-coached that they'd make our run game struggle and force us to be one-dimensional....which means Ash having to complete passes into TCU's zone defense (and outside Man). The key for me is that Ash / Harsin are very effective WHEN they get to choose when we pass the ball. However, when a defenses FORCES us to pass the ball, we're out of our element. That's what happened some last night. Make play-action passing meaningless, and you've taken away Ash's effectiveness.

    As for our defense, I saw TCU scoring some points based on Manny's inability to stop the run , but I figured it's be 30 or less, not one of the high scoring shootouts that we played against WVU, Baylor, OSU, etc...

    I saw this game as something like the Kansas game, only TCU being good enough to get the win whereas Kansas wasn't.

    This simply wasn't a good match-up for Texas, and the only way we were going to win was by executing well enough to keep the offense on the field long enough to wear TCU down. Turnovers and kicking FGs took that chance away.

    Kansas State will be a carbon copy of the TCU game, except that KSU won't go one-dimensional on offense due to a freshman QB. So, KSU will score 30+ points, and we'll have to figure out how to manufacture at least 34 points without an effective inside running game. Tall order for Harsin this week.

    This post was edited by Racer X on 11/23/2012 at 10:02 AM

    Racer X

  • Redbandito25 said...

    Right. And Bobby didn't lend Manny the money. He simply said he didn't enjoy rejecting him

    I probably worded that poorly. The intent was not to pick on Bobby. He is right as usual. There will be no joy in seeing Manny go but it does need to happen. I am still not convinced though that Mack has come to that conclusion yet. His comments after the game seemed more focused on our offensive shortcomings, which were abundant.

    My point was more that if we really want to fix this we need to aim a little higher than Manny. We all love Mack but the whole team was not ready, not just the defense. A new DC can change our scheme but things will still not be fixed if our guys don't come out prepared and wanting it as bad as the other guys do.

    This post was edited by Crazy Horn on 11/23/2012 at 10:13 AM

    Crazy Horn

  • We all love Mack...

    Wow.

    Rick Zoloft

  • I blame the mods for all picking Texas to win. My cousin was telling me that this Texas team is the second youngest top to bottom in the NCAA right now. Anyone who thinks Mack is going anywhere is fooling themselves. I don't believe that Mack was the only one fooled by Manny.

    sundancekid

  • sundancekid said...

    I blame the mods for all picking Texas to win.

    Did they really? Wow.

    Black Shipley

  • hornsrus said...

    And for those who say Ash is the 9th rated QB in the country, I say look at the defenses that he garnered those stats against. There are no impressive wins on his résumé.

    There's at least some validity in calling Ash a lamb killer statistically.

    Poor games against two best defenses he's faced - OU and TCU.

    Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BobbyBurton247

    BobbyBurton

  • When I see Mack coaching these days I get visions of a lame-duck 2nd term President spending his time planning the construction of his presidential library.

    Omar Saleh

  • BobbyBurton said...

    There's at least some validity in calling Ash a lamb killer statistically.

    Poor games against two best defenses he's faced - OU and TCU.

    Is that not what we expected of the offense before the season? That they would do well against weaker defenses and struggle against the good ones? Outside of KU that has been the script. One could say that we played relatively well against two of the better, but not truly good, defenses we played in ISU and TTU.

    We're an average to slightly above average offense and we perform that way. And that's about the development track I would expect given the change in staff, scheme, and needing to develop nearly every position from scratch. The will be a very strong offense next year if we can address the deficiencies at center and TE, and it'll be elite the year after that. Such is the developmental cycle, and hopefully we'll be able to start reloading at that time.

    I got brains. I got big ol' brains. I got dinosaur brains.

    Bobby_Batronic

  • BobbyBurton said...

    TCU's win tonight is the first in Austin since before I was born.

    The last three years has been full of firsts like this.

    drock36

  • BobbyBurton said...

    Mack should be able to find a capable, more conventional, DC.

    Mack needs to realize that he is the problem with the program. We supposedly recruit well each year, hired an offensive coordinator from a successful program and a defensive coordinator that at the time was a hot commodity. Both coordinators have not been as productive as they were at schools with inferior athletes. Mac needs to face the fact that if VY and Colt had not arrived on the 40 acres, he would already be a college football analyst on FSSW or ESPN.
    I agree that Diaz has been a major disappointment, but it wouldn`t surprise me to see him leave Texas and resurface somewhere and be successful. Many of the same posters that want Muschamp back as the coach of the Horns were calling for his job before he left for Florida.
    Harsin will be a success either as a HC or coordinator and if the Boise State coach takes the California job, Harsin will probably be on the short list as his replacement.
    So if we fire Diaz and Harsin leaves the program, we have the likes of Mack, Major, Akina, Searles and d-line coach (sorry but can`t recall his name). When I watch the Horns, I see that both the OL line and D line are terrible. This fall on the shoulders of OL and DL coaches. Also, our running backs have not lived up to their hype, (Bergeron is a FB not a TB, why can`t Major see it). I loved Major as a player and a competitor, but as a position coach and coordinator, not so much. Alabama`s offense got better after his departure. Akina has done his worst coaching of his career. Our DB`s can`t cover or tackle.
    The solution is clear. If Texas wants to get back to the top of the Big 12 then we must start by getting new HC and let him hire his own staff without the pressure of keeping guys like Major and Akina. If we don`t, fellow Horns, please prepare yourself for another embarrassment at the Cotton Bowl next year and another mediocre season.

    The Fall of 69

  • BobbyBurton said...

    Texas virtually abandoned the run game after the first drive of the third quarter.

    Down by two scores, TCU milking clock and Texas having mixed success at best on the ground, you have to think that was the right call by the Horns.

    I don't think it's ever a good idea to abandon what you do best. Harsin didn't try anything with Monroe (literally 0 touches), Daje had 2 touches, and Brown was in there for 1 play and had 0 touches. Two of those guys can change the game if they make a guy miss on a well-blocked play.

    IMO, you have to make them commit to stopping the end around and the straight runs and hope it opens something up for Case. Hopefully something pops with Daje or Monroe, hopefully the combo of Gray and Brown can start grinding it down the field, and hopefully the playaction opens something up eventually.

    Hindsight is 20/20 I reckon.

    WildBill71

  • Bobby_Batronic said...

    Is that not what we expected of the offense before the season? That they would do well against weaker defenses and struggle against the good ones? Outside of KU that has been the script. One could say that we played relatively well against two of the better, but not truly good, defenses we played in ISU and TTU.

    We're an average to slightly above average offense and we perform that way. And that's about the development track I would expect given the change in staff, scheme, and needing to develop nearly every position from scratch. The will be a very strong offense next year if we can address the deficiencies at center and TE, and it'll be elite the year after that. Such is the developmental cycle, and hopefully we'll be able to start reloading at that time.

    It is what was expected. There was some hope that they'd be able to muster more than 6 points thru three quarters though.

    Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BobbyBurton247

    BobbyBurton

  • Chuckie Finster said...

    Is it strange that I didn't feel an ounce of hatred for Patterson the entire game? I watched him coach, I watched him motivate, and I watched him do all the things we wish Mack would do.

    I've officially decided who I want to be the next head coach of our football team.

    +1 Good post! Its hard to dislike a guy who just goes about his job in a workman like manner with no BS. That is needed in Austin with our football program. IMHO

    This post was edited by austinr on 11/24/2012 at 6:58 AM

    "Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"

    austinr

  • Crazy Horn said...

    I probably worded that poorly. The intent was not to pick on Bobby. He is right as usual. There will be no joy in seeing Manny go but it does need to happen. I am still not convinced though that Mack has come to that conclusion yet. His comments after the game seemed more focused on our offensive shortcomings, which were abundant.

    My point was more that if we really want to fix this we need to aim a little higher than Manny. We all love Mack but the whole team was not ready, not just the defense. A new DC can change our scheme but things will still not be fixed if our guys don't come out prepared and wanting it as bad as the other guys do.

    Totally agree with this post.

    Redbandito25

  • BobbyBurton said...

    I don't like saying this, but you have to change DCs. I don't think it's even a question after this.

    It's the same thing he did against Iowa State and other games this year but this time he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar one too many times.

    You just don't have to play that kind of risky defense to win against some teams. It's absolutely counter productive.

    Do you think Diaz is trying to prove a point that his stunting defense can always work? We seem to get in trouble whe he does this.

    RBIII

  • RBIII said...

    Do you think Diaz is trying to prove a point that his stunting defense can always work? We seem to get in trouble whe he does this.

    I don't know what he was trying to do. It's a day later and I still don't.

    Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BobbyBurton247

    BobbyBurton

  • BobbyBurton said...

    I don't like saying this, but you have to change DCs. I don't think it's even a question after this.

    It's the same thing he did against Iowa State and other games this year but this time he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar one too many times.

    You just don't have to play that kind of risky defense to win against some teams. It's absolutely counter productive.

    I completely agree. I was afraid we were seeing fools gold for the past three weeks. Its clear that Diaz's schemes don't work after a decent offensive co-ordinator has seen them a couple of times. For whatever reason, he's completely wed to his defensive concepts and they simply don't work.

    Manny seems to be a bright articulate guy; but he's a bad defensive co-ordinator.

    gordosan