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Durant and the Thunder

  • maninblack1 said...

    Ok that doesn't mean what you're doing RIGHT NOW is best for the FUTURE which is what we were talking about.

    Also my opinion is based on data. Your opinion is based on emotional mumbo jumbo.

    Numbers also say Tony Romo's a better qb than Eli Manning. Just because you disagree with how OKC is doing doesn't mean you can disregard what they've done. You disagree with their philosophy. Cool. They keep winning. And that's all that matters.

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Grady Wilson said...

    Numbers also say Tony Romo's a better qb than Eli Manning. Just because you disagree with how OKC is doing doesn't mean you can disregard what they've done. You disagree with their philosophy. Cool. They keep winning. And that's all that matters.

    I didn't say I disagree with their philosophy but I'm not saying they're not fallible either. They have to make decisions about players every year and what I'm saying is RW should be considered. He's not sacrosanct.

    Also the fundamental difference between comparing NBA and NFL analysis' is NFL players don't play both sides of the ball.

    maninblack1

  • maninblack1 said...

    I didn't say I disagree with their philosophy but I'm not saying they're not fallible either. They have to make decisions about players every year and what I'm saying is RW should be considered. He's not sacrosanct.

    Also the fundamental difference between comparing NBA and NFL analysis' is NFL players don't play both sides of the ball.

    When did I ever say they or Westbrook were without fault? What I'm saying is, you don't go throwing away one of the cores of an extremely good team just for a tad bit more efficiency (and a possible nutcase in Rondo to boot). If OKC makes that trade, it'll be a HUGE gamble.

    Grady Wilson ●

  • I'm not saying that the Thunder should trade RW for RR. I'm also not saying that they shouldn't either. All I'm saying is that RW is more than likely at his highest perceived value and the Thunder would be remiss if they didn't explore their options with him.

    maninblack1

  • maninblack1 said...

    I'm not saying that the Thunder should trade RW for RR. I'm also not saying that they shouldn't either. All I'm saying is that RW is more than likely at his highest perceived value and the Thunder would be remiss if they didn't explore their options with him.

    He's only 23 dude.

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Grady Wilson said...

    He's only 23 dude.

    He's not Michael Jordan dude.

    If you had read my posts I said the calculus the team has to make is will he improve or is what he is at 23 be what he is at 27/28.

    You're operating under the assumption he's untouchable. I look at the data and say he's absolutely touchable if the right scenario is presented.

    maninblack1

  • maninblack1 said...

    He's not Michael Jordan dude.

    If you had read my posts I said the calculus the team has to make is will he improve or is what he is at 23 be what he is at 27/28.

    You're operating under the assumption he's untouchable. I look at the data and say he's absolutely touchable if the right scenario is presented.

    Haha. Data.

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Grady Wilson said...

    Haha. Data.

    Yes.

    maninblack1

  • Deep Red said...

    Westbrook is PGing his team to a NBA championship at 23. It's idiotic even to suggest OKC trade him.

    Please. This team is where it's at because of Kevin Durant. To say or think otherwise is a lesson in utter stupidity, but you are an ou fan. So I guess it's fitting for you to say something so ridiculous.

    NLeininger ●

  • maninblack1 said...

    He's not Michael Jordan dude.

    If you had read my posts I said the calculus the team has to make is will he improve or is what he is at 23 be what he is at 27/28.

    You're operating under the assumption he's untouchable. I look at the data and say he's absolutely touchable if the right scenario is presented.

    You are correct. The core of the team is in 4 players, and by extending one you might not have enough money to extend the other 2 in 2 years.

    I would value Ibaka over RW right now as well, and Ibaka does average more WS/48 than RW does.

    So if I had the choice of trading RW for Rondo, and be able to keep both Harden and Ibaka in 2 years when they become FA(s), or maxing RW and losing Harden and Ibaka in 2 years, I think it's a pretty easy answer.

    NLeininger ●

  • maninblack1 said...

    Wow so much to respond to.

    Grady Wilson said... If OKC traded Westbrook, there would be riots in the streets in Oklahoma.

    No there wouldn't be. Jesus that's some hyperbole.

    Grady Wilson said... As long as Durant is good with it, why change?

    To make the team better. Duh

    Grady Wilson said... Because Skip Bayless says he's a bad pg?

    Has nothing to do with Bayless. Statistics tell me he's a net negative. Additionally, with Harden (who is better) sitting on the bench you can fill his role and you can plug what you get in return for RW into the roster.

    Grady Wilson said... Do you think Jerry Jones is the GM up there?

    Ridiculous and shows me you're not willing to have a serious conversation about it.

    RW despite the turnovers was the 10th most efficient player this season going by Holllinger's PER model. You want to know where Rondo was....78th! Saying RW is a net negative is probably the single dumbest thing I've heard in talking about the NBA. Stick to football MiB.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Canadianhorn ●

  • Canadianhorn said...

    RW despite the turnovers was the 10th most efficient player this season going by Holllinger's PER model. You want to know where Rondo was....78th! Saying RW is a net negative is probably the single dumbest thing I've heard in talking about the NBA. Stick to football MiB.

    I've already responded to my position on Hollinger's PER model.

    maninblack1

  • NBA's efficiency ratings have Westbrook at 18th in the league. Rondo at 29th. If you break it down to per/48 minutes, Westbrook is 48th in the league. Rondo is 82nd.

    This post was edited by Grady Wilson on 6/10/2012 at 5:31 PM

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Grady Wilson said...

    NBA's efficiency ratings have Westbrook at 18th in the league. Rondo at 29th. If you break it down to per/48 minutes, Westbrook is 48th in the league. Rondo is 82nd.

    I don't know if this was in response to me but since you've been responding to me all afternoon I'll assume it was.

    If you read my replies you'd realize I haven't advocated trading Westbrook for Rondo. I haven't advocated against it but I haven't said that's what they should do either.

    All I've said is RW isn't necessarily as valuable as many make him out to be and that the Thunder should evaluate their options with him b/c he's not untouchable. Especially with his perceived value and future contract taken into consideration.

    maninblack1

  • NLeininger said...

    You are correct. The core of the team is in 4 players, and by extending one you might not have enough money to extend the other 2 in 2 years.

    I would value Ibaka over RW right now as well, and Ibaka does average more WS/48 than RW does.

    So if I had the choice of trading RW for Rondo, and be able to keep both Harden and Ibaka in 2 years when they become FA(s), or maxing RW and losing Harden and Ibaka in 2 years, I think it's a pretty easy answer.

    This is exactly where I come out.

    National Director of Scouting & Recruiting Analyst @GerryHam247

    Gerry Hamilton ●

  • I'm a huge Spur fan, but I'm behind the Thunder 100% now. Who do you think the play on James to start off?

    brownrecluse

  • brownrecluse said...

    Who do you think the play on James to start off?

    Thabo Sefolosha

    maninblack1

  • If they had taken Love instead of RW they'd be in a better position and a more interesting one. IMO RW leaves them in an easy position.

    maninblack1

  • brownrecluse said...

    I'm a huge Spur fan, but I'm behind the Thunder 100% now. Who do you think the play on James to start off?

    Interesting thin about OKC v Miami is KD's TO numbers. Something to watch closely. The Heat can go with the physicality of Lebron and the smarts of Battier. KD can't have high volume TO games against the Heat, and he is capable against them because of those two guys IMO.

    KD has scored it and rebounded it just like the regular season in the playoffs, but his A/TO has been much improved in the playoffs, and big in OKC's success.

    Bosh will also pull Ibaka out of the paint on D, which is another interesting aspect of this series IMO. When Collison and Ibaka are on the floor together, Collison will probably be able to guard Bosh and leave Ibaka in a better spot defensively.

    I can't even begin to guess at what Russell Westbrook will do in this series. Tell me what side of the bed he wakes up on, and if he wants to be "the man" or be the best team.

    National Director of Scouting & Recruiting Analyst @GerryHam247

    Gerry Hamilton ●

  • Gerry Hamilton said...

    Interesting thin about OKC v Miami is KD's TO numbers. Something to watch closely. The Heat can go with the physicality of Lebron and the smarts of Battier. KD can't have high volume TO games against the Heat, and he is capable against them because of those two guys IMO.

    KD has scored it and rebounded it just like the regular season in the playoffs, but his A/TO has been much improved in the playoffs, and big in OKC's success.

    Bosh will also pull Ibaka out of the paint on D, which is another interesting aspect of this series IMO. When Collison and Ibaka are on the floor together, Collison will probably be able to guard Bosh and leave Ibaka in a better spot defensively.

    I can't even begin to guess at what Russell Westbrook will do in this series. Tell me what side of the bed he wakes up on, and if he wants to be "the man" or be the best team.

    I agree about KD. Considering that Mario Chalmers made Rondo look like the second coming of Isiah Thomas last series, Westbrook should be fine. What will be interesting is if Miami gambles and tries Wade against Westbrook. That knee looks to still be bothering him, though you'll never here it from them. They may have to take a chance, or Chalmers may end up being the Derek Fisher (defensively) of this series. Irony, ain't it?

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Gerry Hamilton said...

    Bosh will also pull Ibaka out of the paint on D, which is another interesting aspect of this series IMO.

    The Energizer Bunny will have OKC prepared for this.

    Bosh is a glorified 4. They don't have to guard him with someone big. Actually I bet KD marks him and RW/Harden/Sefolosha mark Wade and Lebron.

    If I was Brooks I would pack the lane and make Wade and James jump shooters.

    maninblack1

  • NLeininger said...

    Please. This team is where it's at because of Kevin Durant. To say or think otherwise is a lesson in utter stupidity, but you are an ou fan. So I guess it's fitting for you to say something so ridiculous.

    So you are saying that Westbrook isn't the PG on a team playing for a NBA championship?

    Talk about ridiculous. You are ridiculous.

    Deep Red

  • maninblack1 said...

    If they had taken Love instead of RW they'd be in a better position and a more interesting one. IMO RW leaves them in an easy position.

    Really? There's a great chance that Love's injuries this year would have kept OKC out of the NBA finals. As it stands, OKC is winning a championship now.

    To argue that the Thunder made wrong moves while they just put 4 losses in a row over a team who had won 20 straight is stupid.

    Deep Red

  • maninblack1 said...

    I don't know if this was in response to me but since you've been responding to me all afternoon I'll assume it was.

    If you read my replies you'd realize I haven't advocated trading Westbrook for Rondo. I haven't advocated against it but I haven't said that's what they should do either.

    All I've said is RW isn't necessarily as valuable as many make him out to be and that the Thunder should evaluate their options with him b/c he's not untouchable. Especially with his perceived value and future contract taken into consideration.

    Who cares about his future contract? He's under contract for 5 years. Why would anyone waste time talking about trading Westbrook when the Thunder just pulled off a coup and signed him for less than his value?

    Leave the team building to the experts. Presti has done an outstanding job. It is all about championships isn't it?

    Deep Red

  • NLeininger said...

    You are correct. The core of the team is in 4 players, and by extending one you might not have enough money to extend the other 2 in 2 years.

    I would value Ibaka over RW right now as well, and Ibaka does average more WS/48 than RW does.

    So if I had the choice of trading RW for Rondo, and be able to keep both Harden and Ibaka in 2 years when they become FA(s), or maxing RW and losing Harden and Ibaka in 2 years, I think it's a pretty easy answer.

    This is stupid. You think Rondo comes cheaper than the 15 million Westbrook is making the next 5 years? Really?

    Deep Red

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