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Durant and the Thunder

  • mcb0703 said...

    Before the last Miami-Boston game, ESPN's Chris Broussard was asked about Boston's changes after the season...Broussard said he expects OKC & Boston to re-open the trade talk of Rondo for Westbrook & draft picks

    Sweet baby Jesus make this happen. Then give Harden all of Westbrooks dough.

    SoonerSeif

  • Video of Rick Barnes breaking down Kevin Durant's game.............

    http://www.texassports.com/allaccess/

    Will there ever be another sporting event when Longhorn fans and Sooner fans root for the same team?

    "Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"

    austinr ●

  • texaztom said...

    IMO, his problem is not the "shoot first" mentality. It is the way he plays so out of control at the most crucial times in the game. This is when you want your PG making good decisions and taking care of the ball, while using the clock. Westbrook has a tendency to play the last 3 minutes like it was the first 3 minutes. He also needs to come to grips with the fact that he plays on a team, a team that includes the 3-time scoring champ. Sometimes, he has to bury his ego and give up the ball.

    Westbrook is untouchable. He and Durant will be in OKC for however long they want to be. Possibly the most athletic PG in the history of the league. And he's only gonna get better. You don't ax a 23 year old PG who's nowhere near his prime just because he's unconventional. Just the improvement from last year to this year is amazing. May look ugly at times, but the talent and athleticism overrides everything else. Matchup nightmare.

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Grady Wilson said...

    Westbrook is untouchable. He and Durant will be in OKC for however long they want to be. Possibly the most athletic PG in the history of the league. And he's only gonna get better. You don't ax a 23 year old PG who's nowhere near his prime just because he's unconventional. Just the improvement from last year to this year is amazing. May look ugly at times, but the talent and athleticism overrides everything else. Matchup nightmare.

    It's not because he is unconventional, and nobody is questioning his special athletic ability. If he played the two guard, he would be outstanding. However, he is supposed to be the PG. There were 175 players (regardless of position) who had a better assist to turnover margin than Westbrook during the 2011-12 season. In the category of assists per 48 minutes played, Westbrook was 57th in the NBA. Forty year old Steve Nash was first. Rondo was second. Both had more than twice the number that Westbrook had.

    When you realize that a turnover takes away a scoring opportunity from your team, and an assist represents a made basket, those are sobering numbers. It's hard not to be dazzled by Westbrook's athletic talent. He's just not a real point guard.

    texaztom

  • texaztom said...

    It's not because he is unconventional, and nobody is questioning his special athletic ability. If he played the two guard, he would be outstanding. However, he is supposed to be the PG. There were 175 players (regardless of position) who had a better assist to turnover margin than Westbrook during the 2011-12 season. In the category of assists per 48 minutes played, Westbrook was 57th in the NBA. Forty year old Steve Nash was first. Rondo was second. Both had more than twice the number that Westbrook had.

    When you realize that a turnover takes away a scoring opportunity from your team, and an assist represents a made basket, those are sobering numbers. It's hard not to be dazzled by Westbrook's athletic talent. He's just not a real point guard.

    Kid is averaging nearly 24 ppg. I think he more than makes up for the ratio. If you put him at the two guard, you lose the mismatch. Plus, if Durant wants him there, who's to argue?

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Westbrook fits what the Thunder need IMO. A fast break starting guy that can create his own shot. Rondo would clog the lane for guys like Harden and Durant to drive into because his defender lags off. That's why he fits for Boston. Their wings (Pierce and Allen) are perimeter shooters that don't drive much but screen a lot.

    NYHorn ●

  • I'll take Rondo over Westbrook any day; but I don't see OKC having to throw any picks into the deal.

    gordosan

  • This is going to be a great finals series now that the Heat have Bosh back healthy.

    gordosan

  • NYHorn said...

    Westbrook fits what the Thunder need IMO. A fast break starting guy that can create his own shot. Rondo would clog the lane for guys like Harden and Durant to drive into because his defender lags off. That's why he fits for Boston. Their wings (Pierce and Allen) are perimeter shooters that don't drive much but screen a lot.

    Now that is a smart post. Very good point.

    COACH CUTLIP

  • gordosan said...

    I'll take Rondo over Westbrook any day; but I don't see OKC having to throw any picks into the deal.

    Traditional dominant PGs don't win championships. Scorers and big men do. Tony Parker, Isiah Thomas, and Magic Johnson have been the exception. And they're all once in a blue moon type players who could score from the perimeter. Rondo has no perimeter game whatsoever. Don't get me wrong. I really like Rondo, but he's so sketchy that I'd take the guaranteed aggressiveness that Westbrook brings every night.

    This post was edited by Grady Wilson on 6/10/2012 at 12:39 PM

    Grady Wilson ●

  • NYHorn said...

    Westbrook fits what the Thunder need IMO. A fast break starting guy that can create his own shot. Rondo would clog the lane for guys like Harden and Durant to drive into because his defender lags off. That's why he fits for Boston. Their wings (Pierce and Allen) are perimeter shooters that don't drive much but screen a lot.

    and Harden and Durant are not perimeter scorers?

    Plus Westbrook hits 31.6% of his 3(s), so it's not like he's great shakes out there.

    This post was edited by NLeininger on 6/10/2012 at 1:43 PM

    NLeininger ●

  • SoonerSeif said...

    Sweet baby Jesus make this happen. Then give Harden all of Westbrooks dough.

    Ibaka as well.

    NLeininger ●

  • Westbrook is PGing his team to a NBA championship at 23. It's idiotic even to suggest OKC trade him.

    Deep Red

  • Imagine if OKC had taken Love ahead of Westbrook and Noah over Jeff Green.

    Holy crap that would be an unreal roster. They need to do something about Westbrook. He's a net negative.

    maninblack1

  • Deep Red said...

    Westbrook is PGing his team to a NBA championship at 23. It's idiotic even to suggest OKC trade him.

    No it's not.

    Can he improve? Sure but that doesn't mean you can't derive value from trading him when you know he's overvalued in the market and going to demand near a max contract.

    Substitute Harden for Westbrook full time with a whatever dealing RW can bring and the team is stronger.

    maninblack1

  • maninblack1 said...

    Imagine if OKC had taken Love ahead of Westbrook and Noah over Jeff Green.

    Holy crap that would be an unreal roster. They need to do something about Westbrook. He's a net negative.

    A 2x all NBA PG and one of the Top10 players in the league is a net negative?

    COACH CUTLIP

  • maninblack1 said...

    No it's not.

    Can he improve? Sure but that doesn't mean you can't derive value from trading him when you know he's overvalued in the market and going to demand near a max contract.

    Substitute Harden for Westbrook full time with a whatever dealing RW can bring and the team is stronger.

    Not gonna and will never happen. If OKC traded Westbrook, there would be riots in the streets in Oklahoma. And like I said. As long as Durant is good with it, why change? Because Skip Bayless says he's a bad pg? Do you think Jerry Jones is the GM up there?

    Grady Wilson ●

  • Grady Wilson said...

    Not gonna and will never happen. If OKC traded Westbrook, there would be riots in the streets in Oklahoma. And like I said. As long as Durant is good with it, why change? Because Skip Bayless says he's a bad pg? Do you think Jerry Jones is the GM up there?

    Wow so much to respond to.

    Grady Wilson said...
    If OKC traded Westbrook, there would be riots in the streets in Oklahoma.

    No there wouldn't be. Jesus that's some hyperbole.

    Grady Wilson said...
    As long as Durant is good with it, why change?

    To make the team better. Duh

    Grady Wilson said...
    Because Skip Bayless says he's a bad pg?

    Has nothing to do with Bayless. Statistics tell me he's a net negative. Additionally, with Harden (who is better) sitting on the bench you can fill his role and you can plug what you get in return for RW into the roster.

    Grady Wilson said...
    Do you think Jerry Jones is the GM up there?

    Ridiculous and shows me you're not willing to have a serious conversation about it.

    maninblack1

  • COACH CUTLIP said...

    A 2x all NBA PG and one of the Top10 players in the league is a net negative?

    Right now statistically yes he is.

    If he can improve upon his assist to TO ratio then that probably flips. The calculus for the OKC management is will that happen or is this as good as it gets. If this is what they can expect then I would seriously consider moving him. Reasonss being is Harden gives them the same thing and more, RW is going to demand close to a max contract and his perceived value is going to be as high now as it will ever be.

    Now if they think he'll improve in his decision making and management of the game then it may be different but he's still going to demand a lot of money in the future and IMO Harden and Ibaka are more valuable.

    maninblack1

  • The fact that you're ready to trade one of the top playmakers in the league who's one of the chief reasons his team is in the Finals tells me you're arguing just for the hell of it. OKC has a philosophy it's standing on. And it's working. Very well in fact. They just went through murderer's row fairly easy. Why change?

    Grady Wilson ●

  • maninblack1 said...

    Right now statistically yes he is.

    If he can improve upon his assist to TO ratio then that probably flips. The calculus for the OKC management is will that happen or is this as good as it gets. If this is what they can expect then I would seriously consider moving him. Reasonss being is Harden gives them the same thing and more, RW is going to demand close to a max contract and his perceived value is going to be as high now as it will ever be.

    Now if they think he'll improve in his decision making and management of the game then it may be different but he's still going to demand a lot of money in the future and IMO Harden and Ibaka are more valuable.

    Ok. I enjoy a good discussion here so could you explain what formula you use to determine he's a net negative. I'm interested in seeing how this is determined .

    In another post you said that it would make OKC better. They're already in the NBA finals after getting to the conference finals last year.

    RWs PER is top10 this year. Ahead of guys like Parker and Kobe and Rondo. While I know PER is somewhat flawed it does have its merit. Also OKC was first in scoring this year as well.

    Now I'm not going to say he's perfect because he's not. But he's only been playing PG for 4 years and already shown to be one of the top 3 to 5. Which is saying a lot because the PG play is as good as its been in 25 years. He's made huge strides since even last year and he's got another 4 years until he's in his prime. Selling now would be selling low

    COACH CUTLIP

  • Grady Wilson said...

    Why change?

    You're operating under the assumption the Thunder can do no wrong where I already know they have. They took Westbrook over Love, Green over Noah and played Green over Ibaka before trading him.

    So the Thunder's management is fallible and the depth to which they're playing in the playoffs speaks to 2 things. First KD is f-ing badass who can overcome RW deficiencies. Two Harden was a great pick who does the exact same thing.

    With that said if there isn't value out there for Westbrook than I'm not advocating giving him away. However, if you can get value then you do it b/c RW's perceived value will never be as high as it right now and Harden is virutally the same player but better.

    maninblack1

  • maninblack1 said...

    You're operating under the assumption the Thunder can do no wrong where I already know they have. They took Westbrook over Love, Green over Noah and played Green over Ibaka before trading him.

    So the Thunder's management is fallible and the depth to which they're playing in the playoffs speaks to 2 things. First KD is f-ing badass who can overcome RW deficiencies. Two Harden was a great pick who does the exact same thing.

    With that said if there isn't value out there for Westbrook than I'm not advocating giving him away. However, if you can get value then you do it b/c RW's perceived value will never be as high as it right now and Harden is virutally the same player but better.

    I don't care what they did in past drafts. I'm living in the now. And now tells me they're in the finals with their strategy. As far as Harden being better, cool. That's your opinion. The Thunder appear to like what they're doing RIGHT NOW.

    Grady Wilson ●

  • COACH CUTLIP said...

    Ok. I enjoy a good discussion here so could you explain what formula you use to determine he's a net negative. I'm interested in seeing how this is determined .

    PER is Hollinger's mathematical model which other mathematicians have criticized but he's never responded to. It makes sense for Hollinger not to respond to criticism b/c he's already employed by ESPN and responding to others calling out his methodology lends credence to the fact that his valuation of players is wrong and has been for awhile.

    I prefer to look at Wages of Wins and NBA Geek to get a mathematical perspective towards player performance. Here's an article you can read about RW.

    http://wagesofwins.com/2012/05/22/whats-up-with-westbrook/

    maninblack1

  • Grady Wilson said...

    I don't care what they did in past drafts. I'm living in the now. And now tells me they're in the finals with their strategy. As far as Harden being better, cool. That's your opinion. The Thunder appear to like what they're doing RIGHT NOW.

    Ok that doesn't mean what you're doing RIGHT NOW is best for the FUTURE which is what we were talking about.

    Also my opinion is based on data. Your opinion is based on emotional mumbo jumbo.

    maninblack1

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