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Why Texas Basketball?

  • austen said... (original post)

    If you were trying to PM me a pic of your ass, i think i'll pass :/

    Well we have already seen yours so wouldn't that be fair?surrenderlol

    "Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"

  • Are you 12? catfight

  • Bob in Houston said... (original post)

    From last week's Star-Telegram feature on Barnes:

    "I just think Myck is a winner," he said. "He compares to T.J. in that respect. T.J. gave Coach confidence that no matter what situation we were in, we were going to be all right. Myck will bring that. He will be more demonstrative [than Ford], be more visibly vocal.

    "I'm just excited for our guys to be around him."

    Thanks for that Bob.

    Gives you something to look forward to this season.

  • austen said... (original post)

    Ok, let's see... Texas and every Big12 team has 2 chances each year to win a conference title (regular and tournament). Rick Barnes is currently 3/26 for a 11.5% success rate. Bill Self, in comparison, is 12/26 or 75%(!!!!). I won't go crazy and ask Barnes to match that, so....how about 25% hit rate? Is that too much to ask?

    12/26 doesn't equal 75 percent, but I get your drift. I'd like for them to have won more titles, too.

    But I also asked you why, and you didn't answer that. As austinr mentions, the B12 tournament doesn't mean anything unless you're on the bubble. Barnes never really has been. He's been second to Kansas pretty much across the board. He's certainly been competitive -- he's won 12 or more games nine times.

    What more championships would show is that Barnes is making up ground on Kansas. That's a noble goal. Personally, I think regular-season championships are meaningful. But at the same time, I don't think I could tell you who won any of the other BCS league titles last year, and I'd be about 50-50 on this year and that would be after some serious thought.

    I'm as discouraged as many and more than most over how they lost in the NCAAs this year. They have to do some rebuilding to get back to the top 10, but I'm not concerned that Barnes is incapable of doing it again.

    There are fans of other schools who aren't that excited about how last season ended. All of the top eight seeds make up a major part of that. KU fans are a little grumpy about Bill Self's performance in the last couple of tournaments, and he's had four major flameouts since he's been there. If Memphis could shoot free throws, or foul Mario Chambers at the right time, Self's seat would be so hot right now that he couldn't sit down during games, and he's winning at a rate that beats just about everybody. The guy who has been winning at a record rate, Jamie Dixon, can't get to the FF.

    If I thought there were a clear choice that was better, I suppose I'd be advocating it, but I can't think of one.

    FWIW, if this season is like others when Barnes seems to have little to work with, he'll do better than everyone thinks. He has been good at that.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • Yeah, my mistake. Self has been at Kansas 8 years, so it's 12/16 (75%).

    I used to not care about the tournament title either, but when your team is knocked out of the first weekend the last 3 years (4 of the last 5), as a fan, I would like to take something, ANYTHING, positive from the season. Would i trade a Big 12 regular or tournament title for a deep run in the tournament? In a heartbeat, but that hasn't been happening. So after all that time and energy spent following this team all season, we're left with no regular season title, no tournament title, and a 2nd rd exit. Yes, the KU win at Allen Fieldhouse was fun, and so were the 2 beatdowns of A&M, but they don't give out trophies for that (don't even bring up that dumb LSS). At the end of the year, I'm left no more satisfied than an aggy basketball fan.

    The analogy I would make is with Bob Stoops. People give him so much shit about losing BCS bowl games, but at least he's got those 7 Big12 trophies in his office.

  • That last post just made me depressed b/c it got me to thinking about our success in the Big12. We're 2nd to OU in football, 2nd to Kansas in basketball. We dominate the league in baseball and swimming&diving. I guess you can add volleyball now that Nebraska's gone. Is that it? That's pretty disappointing....

  • Is Barnes just a good recruiter? Can he put freshmen together into a national championship contender? Why do his teams seem to fade out, rather than improve, over the course of a season?

    Questions from espn's followup to the fwst article.

    On evaluating Texas' Rick Barnes - College Ba

    Rick Barnes has a unique challenge. Before he arrived in Austin, Tex., the Longhorns were a solid program but hardly a national one. Thirteen years la

    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32348/on-evaluating-rick-barnes
  • austen said... (original post)

    That last post just made me depressed b/c it got me to thinking about our success in the Big12. We're 2nd to OU in football, 2nd to Kansas in basketball. We dominate the league in baseball and swimming&diving. I guess you can add volleyball now that Nebraska's gone. Is that it? That's pretty disappointing....

    The ultimate would be to dominate in everything. Just because Texas has a money machine for an athletic department doesn't mean that schools that make less shouldn't be able to compete. It just means that Texas can be competitive in anything it puts its mind to.

    As for depression, this would be beowulfesque, IMO. It's one thing to be unhappy that Texas has not been able to gain the upper hand on OU in football in the last decade -- even so, OU has proven to be a worthy competitor, and Texas has been right there with them.

    For Texas still to be working on equaling KU in basketball is no surprise. KU has had a dominant couple of decades, running the best program this side of Duke, with UNC and Kentucky in the same neighborhood. Texas has not been embarrassed to be second to Kansas in men's hoops in the B12. I have Texas as a top-10 program in the last 10 years, and even in the top 15 over 20, which includes some of what Penders did. I want more, but it's more of a hope than a demand. I guess that's where I part ways with some people.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • earbucket said... (original post)

    Is Barnes just a good recruiter?

    Can he put freshmen together into a national championship contender?

    Why do his teams seem to fade out, rather than improve, over the course of a season?

    Questions from espn's followup to the fwst article.

    1) No. He's not the best strategist in the country, but he's far from the worst.

    2) No, but nobody else has either. There are some veterans in championship rotations, even if only sophomores.

    3) It doesn't happen all the time, but it has happened the last couple of years. It looked like Barnes burned out the 2011 team. He's gonna have to learn from that.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • Bob in Houston said... (original post)

    The ultimate would be to dominate in everything. Just because Texas has a money machine for an athletic department doesn't mean that schools that make less shouldn't be able to compete. It just means that Texas can be competitive in anything it puts its mind to.

    OK, then the question I have is why doesn't Texas put its mind to all our teams? What's the excuse? Can't be money.

    (And that beowulf jab wasn't necessary. That's so OB-esque.)

  • austen said... (original post)

    OK, then the question I have is why doesn't Texas put its mind to all our teams? What's the excuse? Can't be money.

    (And that beowulf jab wasn't necessary. That's so OB-esque.)

    I think they do. The point is that having money doesn't mean you win, or at least always win. It just helps you compete because you don't lack for facilities or whatever money can provide, like a recruiting budget.

    Beowulf was going around last week talking about what a miserable sports year it was. That's what I was referring to. Nothing personal.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • You're going to give me more than "I think they do." What evidence makes you confident that Dodds and Plonsky are committed to competing for championships in all our sports, and that they're holding coaches accountable who don't meet whatever standards that they have set? Do you think Dodds and Plonsky even have standards or expectations for their coaches when it comes to winning (I'm sure they have expectations when it comes to graduation/GPA/NCAA violations)?

  • austen said... (original post)

    You're going to give me more than "I think they do." What evidence makes you confident that Dodds and Plonsky are committed to competing for championships in all our sports, and that they're holding coaches accountable who don't meet whatever standards that they have set? Do you think Dodds and Plonsky even have standards or expectations for their coaches when it comes to winning (I'm sure they have expectations when it comes to graduation/GPA/NCAA violations)?

    What makes you think they don't? It hasn't been that long since every program made postseason play, and the vast majority do every year. That's solid evidence of competitive expectations. IMO, no coach could function well if the standard was winning a championship.

    You have to take all the circumstances into account. How long has the coach been there? What is the record? How competitive is the league? For the revenue sports, what is the attendance? Is it rising, falling? How does the coach do in postseason play? How does the coach recruit? Do the players and staff represent the school well?

    And a ton of others.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • Ok, I'll throw out 3 examples: Bubba Thornton, Chris Petrucelli, John Fields. All have been here 12+ years, have 0 national championships, and about 15 Big12 titles during their combined 40+ years at Texas. Meanwhile, Oklahoma State and A&M have won NCs in golf, and A&M just won their third straight in T&F. As for Petrucelli, he's getting paid $270,000 (5th highest paid HC behind Mack, Barnes, Coach G, and Augie), has 3(?) Big 12 titles, and hasn't even come close to a NC (even though he managed to win one at Notre Dame). It's ridiculous that he's being paid that much and not producing, especially in a non-revenue sport! Do we even sell tickets to soccer games?

  • You've given me people I have to look up.

    As best I can tell, they're still competitive at the national level, although Petrucelli and Fields have done relatively poorly lately. And yet, golf was 12th in the nation this year. Thornton has four national outdoor top 10 team finishes in the last decade and was head coach of the U.S. team in the Olympics last time around -- he has to be doing something right. Petrucelli remains a top-10 all-time coach in both wins and percentage.

    As far as that goes, I'm not all that stoked about the job Gail Goestenkors has been doing.

    But I don't have the answers to any of the questions I posed as a framework for determining whether to keep a coach with any of those people. I think it's deeper than wins and losses.

    After all, I don't think there was a serious discussion of booting Mack after last year (although I suppose there might have been had he not won in 2005 and not agreed to significant staff changes). I think I do have a handle on Barnes, and as best I can tell, he's doing all right. They gave him the raise, so I guess Dodds and I agree.

    I'm saying that it's not a numbers thing unless you've put the coach on double secret probation.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • I feel like we aren't getting anywhere. I give you 3 (legit IMO) examples and you say didn't even know who they are, but somehow, by reading their Texassports.com bio i presume, you've determined that they're doing an adequate job. The bottom line is, in the examples i gave, we're being out-performed by Oklahoma St and A&M. They managed to win multiple NCs, and we aren't. Are Plonsky and Dodds noticing this? Are they okay with it?

  • And if "it's deeper than wins and losses," why are we paying a soccer coach $270,000? Is he being paid all that money to keep a high team GPA? I'm guessing we gave him that big contract in order to lure him from Notre Dame b/c we wanted the same results he produced there. How do you justify his salary when coaches like Eddie Reese and Jerrit Elliott are being paid less, but have accomplished a lot more?

    This post was edited by austen 3 years ago

  • austen said... (original post)

    And if "it's deeper than wins and losses," why are we paying a soccer coach $270,000? Is he being paid all that money to keep a high team GPA? I'm guessing we gave him that big contract in order to lure him from Notre Dame b/c we wanted the same results he produced there. How do you justify his salary when coaches like Eddie Reese and Jerrit Elliott are being paid less, but have accomplished a lot more?

    What I meant was I had to look up the records.

    B12 golf is pretty stout. Is Fields' record a standout? No, but a 12th-place national finish is not bad. A&M obviously is on a track roll; Texas was competitive this year.

    Petrucelli has had three years of middle of the pack. The contract would be a factor for me, but he's obviously got at least one more. The question is what you would have to pay a replacement, and would that new coach be as qualified. The answer to the latter is probably not, so you have to be sure when you make a move. Same with the others.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • Bob in Houston said... (original post)

    What I meant was I had to look up the records.

    B12 golf is pretty stout. Is Fields' record a standout? No, but a 12th-place national finish is not bad. A&M obviously is on a track roll; Texas was competitive this year.

    Petrucelli has had three years of middle of the pack. The contract would be a factor for me, but he's obviously got at least one more. The question is what you would have to pay a replacement, and would that new coach be as qualified. The answer to the latter is probably not, so you have to be sure when you make a move. Same with the others.

    Bob you love the Horns as do I and you love Basketball and feel really good about their future as do I so leave it at that. There is no point in responding to this guy because you are never going too win. Unless Texas wins a national championship in Basketball this year and Football does as well, you are not going to convince this guy of anything. Every year they half too win the conference or there will be no satisfying him so leave it alone.

  • Keeping coaches on edge, with an implied threat to cut them loose, might push a coach to try to win a championship, but it would destabilize the program more. If they actually started firing coaches after five or six years because they didn't win, the word would get around. It would affect the quality of coaches they could hire, as well as recruiting.

    Demanding excellence is fine, but it must be weighed against the cost of establishing a new coach. Fans generally are not part of that equation, and, in any event, have the least at risk.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • Oklahoma St. is the the top program in the country for golf and has been for a long time. To show proof of that, Holder became their damn athletic director. How many golf coaches become the AD?

  • A&M golf has passed us and that should NOT happen, not with the great tradition we have. This program is better than average right now, but thats about it.

  • Several Texas schools have passed us at certain times over the years. Texas has been a constant underachiever in the sport since Farenbruch and Elder were playing. TCU was by far the better program for years. Baylor had several great teams led by Jimmy Walker.

    Texas easily has the roster to compete nationally. Fields is a problem.

  • From Andy Katz
    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6716783/american-u-19-team-struggles-overseas
    ---------------------------------
    The Longhorns now have the most first-round NBA draft picks (eight) of any school over the past six years. Kansas and Kentucky are tied for second with seven. If you push it back to 2000, Texas is third with 10 but just one behind North Carolina and Kansas for the lead. Connecticut, Duke and Kentucky have had nine in that span. The Longhorns have also had six lottery picks since 2000, which is tied for fifth with Arizona. Kansas tops that list with nine, followed by UConn and Duke with eight and North Carolina with seven.
    ----------------------------------

    Way to go Rick/Todd/Staff!...A Lot of big prospects out there 2012, 2013 and 2014!

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  • Beast 512 said... (original post)

    Several Texas schools have passed us at certain times over the years. Texas has been a constant underachiever in the sport since Farenbruch and Elder were playing. TCU was by far the better program for years. Baylor had several great teams led by Jimmy Walker.

    Texas easily has the roster to compete nationally. Fields is a problem.

    "Texas easily has the roster to compete nationally. Fields is a problem."

    This is very accurate.