In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 799
The place to talk about the Texas Longhorns
The place for off topic discussion on Hookem
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
Barnes needs to do a better job of identifying the 3-4 years guys that actually get much better throughout there careers. Guys like Paulino, Ivey, Mouton, Boddicker, James, Klotz, and Atchley. All those guys improved during their tenure and were valuable rotation players to stars.
I think he got that in his last class. In other words, he has the glue guys, now he just needs a few stars to mix in.
is everyone satisfied with the conference performance? in 14 years texas has only won it outright once and tied twice and never won the conference tournament. its not that hard to get into the ncaa tournament, if you took the top 64 football teams to put them into a tourney, would you think it was a major accomplishment to get int he top 64 each year?
i know thats not a great a comparison but just judging a coach on tourny appearances is about like judging a football coach on bowl appearances, because there are so many bowls its not that prestiges anymore, being one of 64 isn't that big a deal either really...
This post was edited by mileslong 2 years ago
Hayden Christensen - to merely call him wooden is an affront to puppets everywhere...
First of all, there are three times as many D-1 basketball teams as football teams. That means that only about 20% of basketball teams make the tourney, compared to half of football teams making bowl games. Short of an upset in a conference tournament, no basketball team with a .500 record is going to make the tourney. In football, that's all it takes.
I don't dismiss the three conference regular season championships, especially because the uneven schedule formerly played in the Big 12 often favored Kansas when Texas, OU, OSU and TT all had strong teams at the same time.
I often wonder how many of the people (not directed at you, mileslong) who complain about the Texas basketball team or baseball team really follow the respective sports, and how many just want to be able to brag about Texas winning. I don't really think we should be gearing our programs to satisfy those people.
While I would like to see at least an occasional conference tournament championship, I'm not all that fussed about it. What greatly disturbs me is three years in the last four of being no better than +2 in the regular season conference won-loss record. I can live with a lot of very, very good teams that compete to the end but come short of titles. I can't abide being constantly no better than in the middle of the pack, which is what Texas was in 2009, 2010, and 2012.
In Barnes's first 10 years at Texas, it finished 1st 3 times, 2nd 4 times, 3rd twice, and 5th once (the year Tucker was lost to grades and Aldridge was lost to injury, so it was kind of understandable). The average annual record in that stretch was 12-4. In the last 4 years, it finished 4th in 2009 (tied with 3 others), 6th in 2010 (tied), second last year, and sixth again this year in a shrunken conference. Over that stretch, it had an average record of 10-6.5. In three of those years, Texas had no shot at the title with at least 5 games left. In two of those years, it was eliminated from any chance of even a second place finish with 5 or more games left, and in a third of those years, KU ran away with the title with a 15-1 record with three teams tying for second at 11-5.
This post was edited by bierce 2 years ago
It's happened but just once. #6 Texas beat #3 Miss. State.
I think too many UT fans don't really follow college basketball, and therefore don't appreciate what Barnes has accomplished.
A majority of fans don't want to go to games, yet they want at minimum a S16 every year. A majority of fans want UT to recruit in state, yet want the program to be clean. A majority of fans want a national championship, but want to do it with 4 year guys. All of these are ignorant statements to people that really follow college basketball.
What it boils down to is most UT fans couldn't care less about UT basketball, but they want a team they can brag about, without truly supporting the team.
When thinking about UT basketball, and how good of a job Barnes did this year, look no further than last night's game between Washington and Oregon. Washington has 3 REALLY highly recruited players in Abdul Gaddy (JR), Terrence Ross (SO), and Tony Wroten (FR), and yet they are in the NIT. Not only do they have those 3, but they have a mixture of upperclassmen and freshmen, size and guards. They also played in the weakest major conference, and still only managed to win 20 games after last night's win.
Texas had maybe 2 highly rated players (out of HS) on the roster, with 6 of 9 being freshmen, and only one player being taller than 6'7.
But we are going to act like he can't coach. Amazing.
he's had 14 years. you've seen what he can do.
I'm ok with a change. If it doesn't work out then at least we tried. Rick should have taken the NC State job.
9 and 4 at Texas sucks!
- Jeff Howe
Or the Lakers
Or Chelsea FC
I forget how many jobs he has been "rumored" to be offered.
If we don't make the 2nd weekend in the next 2 years it may be time for a change.
I'm not sure if we have just poorly evaluated or the guys brought in haven't put the work in or a combo of both but there has been a lack of development. I do think we have taken guys that were a bit too raw especially in the front court. Not saying we need to land guys that are polished but I don't think it's asking much to land guys that have good hands, solid footwork, can finish around the and show the ability to rebound outside their area. Throw in a shot blocker every 2-3 classes.
I don't agree with Barnes not having a plan/vision because of the issue with developing. Better development means a more rounded team and not having to rely on FR to carry things. However, I don't think he's done a good job having backup plans and keeping in contact with uncommitted/unsigned players in case we have surprise early entries. Also think its important to get guys that basketball is important too. That's something we look for in football recruits should be the same for basketball. Also think there should be more focus in state.
Development is on both the players and coaches. IMO though development in basketball is more on the player.
Ideally you have a talented group of 3-4 year guys and you add 1-2 elite 1-and-dones. We appear to be trending that way.
I still think you take one and dones as it will only help land other elite guys but need to really hit on the 3-4 year guys which has been the biggest problem.
Long post with some scattered thoughts but just my two cents.
Considering that UT is unfortunately not a special basketball place with fan support not all that, and certainly the facility has not been exactly a premier venue for a long, long time, Barnes does as good a job as near anyone. Those that could do better, would not even consider coming here. So, not sure what the gripe is frankly. You never know how good you have it until you don't.
Is Baylor a "special basketball place?" Because like him or not, Scott Drew is doing better. Gail Goestenkors has two less victories than Barnes in the tourney over the last four years and just resigned. If the guy were making an average salary, maybe lower expectations would be acceptable. But I promise you that 2.5 mil a year could bring in coaches who could compete for conference championships every year.
And for the record, Barnes doesn't get a pass because of the unevenness on his roster. He recruited those players. He is accountable.
This post was edited by Redbandito25 2 years ago
I know basketball means very little at UT compared to football and Rick Barnes just needs to keep the program relevant, but I think he needs to go. He's one of the best recruiters in the nation, but one of these worst in-game coaches in the nation. His offense is like watching women's basketball, and it has been for a few years now. I'm a huge supporter of the basketball team and want us to be up there with UK, UNC, Duke, etc. and I know we can be. I think it's time for a new face, I say go get Brad Stevens.
This year was the first time since the mid 70s that I didn't watch any Horns basketball. Had season tickets from Abe thru Tom. Haven't lived in Austin since 93 but I normally catch >80% of the games on TV and make to Austin for a game or two every couple of years.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by GoingCoastal 2 years ago
Barnes is the best basketball coach we've ever had, period. Second place doesn't come close.
This post was edited by bat 2 years ago
i'm not sure why people feel this is pertinent to the discussion.
That statement seems like a C vote to me.
“Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11
Well the current totals by my count are:
A - 10
B - 13
C - 5
Obviously this is a pretty small sample that represents likely a more serious basketball crowd than the average Texas fan, but I would say this next season is likely the make or break year for Rick Barnes. If we lose Kabongo and Brown and don't get Ridley on campus then it could get very interesting.
Gerry - I know you aren't in a position to place a vote about the fate of a coach but I know you've commented previously on how Rick's job isn't necessarily guaranteed. Do you have any thoughts you can share regarding what kind of season it would take for the AD to consider making a switch? In some regards I feel guilty even having this discussion as I agree that this season was one of Rick's best coaching jobs getting this team to the tournament, but on the flip side he put a team together who best case scenario was "make the tourney." I just feel like we're on the wrong side of the Texas basketball mountain now under Rick Barnes.
Not Gerry but I'll suggest that the standard is, "Don't embarrass us."
Goes for just about any sport, depending on the emphasis and the budget. It's why a coach can go 4-8 at Kansas in football but 18-14 in basketball would set his chair on fire.
At Texas, people like basketball but they don't care about it. If they cared, Barnes might feel more heat. But if they cared, there might be a stronger tradition, and players might hang around longer, as Texas football players do, and Duke and North Carolina basketball players do, and Barnes would have a stronger resume of high seeds and NCAA victories than he already does (and believe it or not, it's still pretty good).
When you get to No. 1, as Barnes did in 2010, and nearly fall out of the NCAA tournament, that's embarrassing. When you jack up expectations in 2011 with a perfect B12 start, then lose three of the last five, and blow a NCAA game that you had in your pocket after working really hard to overcome a big deficit, that's embarrassing.
At Texas, the football coach can't go 3-9 and lose at home 66-3. Just can't do it. Can't go 5-7 with the same ol' crew and expect to keep on going.
Barnes has set a high standard and has to show that he can still meet it. I don't think next year is make-or-break because I don't think the roster merits it. The next year? I think people will be watching closely.
All very fair
i understand the sentiment that UT should be a consistent major player in all sports. BUT...what other program in the entire nation can make that claim? maybe Florida. not tOSU, not Kentucky, not Bama, not UConn, not anyone from the ACC, not anyone from the Big 10, not anyone from the PAC 12. if memory serves, only Florida has been a player in the national title picture for all 3 major sports in the past decade. and i think making a final four in '03 puts Texas in the same class (a step below, of course). as far as i know, only Michigan and tOSU have won all 3, but never in close succession.
i think people need to recognize the totality of what they're expecting. sure, i'd love to see Texas hold down the triple crown. i think we're supposed to be on par or exceeding Michigan and tOSU. but it's obviously a rare thing to find. and in today's day and age, basketball seems to be the most difficult to find consistent upper-echelon success in unless your school is a basketball school (eg UConn, UNC, Duke, Kentucky, arguably Mich St...).
i don't, however, have any problem w/ barnes being under pressure to succeed. i just think that fans shouldn't be so cavalier about their expectations.
This is a good post Bob
great post. agree with everything. Your last point, about the following season after next year, is right on imo. Next year with what's almost guaranteed to have another frosh pg running the offense and without Ridley signed yet I'm not expecting a ton. A little more than this year, epecially if we get Ridley is all really, maybe a sweet 16 birth. The following year and recruiting that 2014 class is crucial.
Where do I stand with Barnes?
With our resources and location, a chimp could recruit just as well as Barnes with assistants like Springmann.
Couldnt be less impressed with his all defense, no offense philosophy. Time to move on.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports