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What would have J'Covan Brown meant to this years team?

  • Sorry I am late to the discussion. Since the last game, I have had to check my, "You fucking idiot!" response at the door, since just about any comment about the wherewithal of my favorite basketball team would tend to set my mood on edge.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://wildomarmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/over-the-edge.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wildomarmagazine.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/over-the-edge/&h=507&w=640&sz=89&tbnid=tzXPqXlF7cXtHM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=118&prev=/search%3Fq%3Don%2Bedge%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=on+edge&usg=__fCV91SQIHg3OpOWYCfeV7b4IAgE=&docid=f5Co8e1UjSm2HM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6RkjUd-lJYaF2gXi64CoAg&sqi=2&ved=0CEkQ9QEwBQ&dur=9419

    But, I'm feeling much better now!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWz-tBU6_L0

    So. On to the subject at hand. Beast sez regarding J'Covan, that, "No moment was ever to big for him." I really like J'Covan. He overcame a lot of adversity to come to UT. He really wanted to be here. The problem with J'Covan was that when push came to shove in a game, on the one hand, he might just pull the game out with an amazing shot and or pass for somebody else to make an amazing shot. That is what we like to remember. On the other hand, he was just as likely to take an ill advised clunker or pass to some unsuspecting, startled soul in the third row. The problem is that we tend to remember the the former, and I think that the latter, I hate to say, were more common. So, what difference would he have made? As austinr said, maybe five games, or as gordosan said, "...Probably four, possibly five additional additional wins." Gee! Who would of thought of those two agreeing? ;)

    Beast also said, "These kids are scared at tipoff." Eh! Not so much! These kids are kids, that is why you have such a disparity between the Iowa State game and the Kansas game. Kids will be kids, don't you know! ;)

  • When it comes to handling players, all a coach has is his "principles". He cannot play for them. The Barne had to play "tough" with J'Covan more than a few times while he was here. It made him a better player. J'Covan had a flawed career at Texas because of his attitude, The Barne did not write him off. He benched him more than a few times. J'Covan learned from The Barne's discipline and he became a much better player because of it. Now, whether he liked it or not is another story! ;)

    Whether we like it or not, Texas outscoring better teams this season is not the issue. Developing this team for the future, is.

  • And how, exactly, do you know this?

  • Depending on how this young team plays, sometimes there are no good options. The Barne has a team of youngsters. They have to learn the basics before they can use their best talents effectively. Just like J'Covan before them, Sheldon and Juice have at times reverted to ineffectiveness on parts of their game. Just like J'Covan before them, Coach Barnes is trying to get them to realize all of their potential. A lot of the responsibility of whether this works or not also rests on their shoulders. Sheldon did play in an inspired fashion in overtime against Iowa State, but he has also failed to show up in other games. Shouldn't Coach Barnes attempt to teach him to try to show up a little more often?

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by BudreauReye 17 months ago

  • Those three players are blessed with basketball savy. Lammert can get stronger, Holland can work on developing his shot, and considering the work ethic that he shows, I bet he will. Papi, well, he needs to get stronger, and he will, but he needs to just keep on being Papi. Juice and Sheldon both have a world of talent. Maybe they just need to be a little more aware of their limitations

  • This IS a discussion board, and thank goodness we don't have UT's basketball success or lack thereof coming back to haunt us, huh? ;) The Barne's record stands on its' own merit. It is very relevant what he thinks about what he has done. Texas has been saddled with a very unfortunate loss of personnel over the last three years. We are not Kansas. We are not Kentucky. There is no way that we can go out and reload in the same way each year as those types of programs. Seems to me that Coach should be given a little bit of credit for recognizing this and changing his modus operandi. In a way, he was a victim of his own recruiting success.

  • Well! I guess my mood has improved a tad. As DLev sez, this IS a discussion board, and I am glad that I have somewhat regained my "discussing" voice. But, it is closing in on the witching hour of 2:00 AM, and my wife's threats of bodily harm notwithstanding, I must be off to the Land of Nod! ;)

  • You are barking up the wrong tree if you want to talk about Barnes' tenure with me like you know more about it. You didn't even remember when we wore black jerseys against Duke. I started at UT the same year as Barnes. I was an original member of the O Zone. I have followed this team to post-season games in San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, and Atlanta. I know Barnes' record and he has always been my favorite coach on campus.

    The thing that you are ignoring is twofold: First, no one is infallible, so pointing to past success is a ridiculous argument to begin with. More importantly, it's an argument that shows you have no real argument. Second, if you want to point to past success to justify his trend the past few years of just benching players for whole games, show me a time in the past when Barnes benched his best offensive player for games at a time and it helped the team succeed. You can't because it never happened. Kevin Durant's Texas team was very young. Barnes didn't motivate them by benching players for whole games at a time. This is a new technique and, in my view, one that is doing a lot more harm than good. With Barnes' early teams, if you made a mistake, he had a quick hook, but you were back in the game five minutes later. That's teaching. What he's doing now is just throwing in the towel. Barnes' job is to motivate his players and teach them. Benching them for whole games and in the process taking away any chance the team had to win is a sign that he's given up.

  • bierce,

    I agree that Brown was not perfect, but the assertion made by another poster that he wasn't a leader is flat out false.

    I think the value of Brown to this team would be immense because of the youth of this team. Last year's team had even less talent than this year's team in my opinion, but won more.

    This post was edited by JKates 17 months ago

    Signatures are stupid. You should block them.

  • He did it with Dogus Balbay, so it's been several years.

    But if you want to say he's quicker to do things like this, I will go with you there.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • I can think of one. In 2010, he passed off to Gary Johnson rather than shoot the last FTs in overtime against Wake Forest. Johnson missed both, and WF came down and hit the winning jumper.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • And I agreed he was a leader and even said he was the best player and would likely be the best player on this year's team. I was just bringing this back to the original topic of the thread--how much of a difference would his presence have made? I see maybe 4-5 game swing, not anything like 10 that some are suggesting.

    Last year's team also had an athletic point guard that was an effective outsider shooter in conference play (.375), and it had more effective play from Chapman and Wangmene in the middle than we have seen this year.

  • I am really effing smart.

  • ;) Since this IS a discussion board, how could anybody refute this? This remark is emphatic! You, Sir, win the Emphatic Statement of the Day Award! ;)

  • ......For those who read your posts there would be wide spread disagreement with that statement

    "Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"

  • I would not dare compare my basketball watching record with your illustrious tenure. I have only been following UT basketball since Leon Black was coach. I am of the opinion that comparisons like this don't mean diddley. All I am doing is picking apart your posts like you are doing to others. It is easy, and just because you or I do it, that does not mean either you or I are right or wrong. it does not mean anything in the real scheme of things. With regards to Coach Barnes benching players for five minutes or a whole game, neither you nor I are privy to what Coach Barnes is dealing with in practices, meetings, halftimes, or even time out palavers. He pulls players, including Sheldon and Juice, all the time, either he or another coach coaches them up, lets them sit and puts them back in at an opportune moment. The fact that he pulled Sheldon and sat him for the rest of a game means that there is something going on that calls for greater action than just sitting him for a few minutes. He did this with J'Covan and J'Covan became a better player over his time here. Over the course of his years here, I am sure he probably has done it with other players. I don't remember, and I am too lazy to try to figure it out. I don't think that if Coach feels compelled to such an extreme action, that he is just doing it capriciously. The reason that he did not do this with Kevin Durant's team means only that circumstances did not warrant such action. You said, "Barnes' job is to motivate his players and teach them. Benching them for whole games and in the process taking away any chance the team had to win is a sign that he's given up." Your first assertion is very correct. Your comment that he has given up is nothing more than a tremendous leap of faith on your part. You have nothing to back that statement up. See how easy it is to take someone else's statement apart and refute it piece by piece? It is easy, but it does not make either of us right. After all, this IS a discussion board as somebody previously pointed out in this thread ... Gee! I think it wuz you that done that deed! ;) I am glad that Coach Barnes is your favorite coach on campus. He is mine, too. For me, though, I am very sure that he is the very same favorite coach on campus that he was before the past two years - the circumstances have changed. Can he right the ship and maintain a steady course. I think he is in the process of doing that. Time will tell if that is not the case. Hell! I've been wrong before, I once went to bed thinking for certain that the next morning I would wake up to a George McGovern landslide victory. That is a good example of where certainty can get you. With regard to your statement about the black uniforms against Duke, I did not forget that game. I just do not think that the color and design of a teams' uniforms means squat.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by BudreauReye 17 months ago