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No, I understand the argument, but it is you who are missing the big picture. First, I think your "score 15 allow 20" is hyperbole, but let's go with it. The big picture isn't just McClellan's performance, it is what you replace that with -- in this case, Holland. Holland's defense and "hustle" doesn't come close to outweighing the fact that he flat out can't score from the outside -- and neither can the two point guards, mind you. The result is he cuts down the other team's points from 20 to 15 (using your example), but cuts down Texas' points from 15 to 2. It's a net loss from what you get from playing McClellan. The KU game is pretty obvious proof of that.
The bottom line is Barnes has created a world with only two options. In option one, he benches McClellan and Lewis and guarantees a loss. In option two, he plays them, gives the team a chance to win, but potentially sends a bad message that laziness is tolerated. In my view it is incredibly selfish of Barnes to choose the strategy that guarantees that his team loses, just to prove a point. He should have the self-awareness to understand that with this particular set of players benching one of his few true scorers is just not a viable option.
But my bigger problem with Barnes is the past few years he seems to be unwilling or unable to create a third option beyond the two discussed above. One "third option" is to simply come up with a different and better way to motivate your players besides constant benching. Benching is a nuclear option that Barnes has gone to way too often the past several years and that has proven woefully ineffective. That's poor coaching, plain and simple. Another "third option" is recruiting and developing players capable of hustling and at least moderate scoring so that he can bench stars without guaranteeing losses. It's pretty obvious that we are not there.
Finally, I'm no longer willing to give Barnes the benefit of the doubt that these players even deserve to be benched. Barnes repeatedly overreacted and held Brown to a different standard than the rest of the team. And McClellan's performance in overtime against Iowa State was inspired. He hustled, rebounded, and scored. It makes no sense that he could get back that deep into the doghouse five minutes into the KU game. Like I said, benching is the nuclear option of motivational tactics and Barnes has grossly overused it.
A senior J'coven Brown would not have only given us a dependable, go to scorer but he also would have eased the loss of Kabongo as he does have a good handle and is not a midget like Felix. This season would have been much more competitive with him in the lineup.
..............I disagree it is really the point of this discussion along with setting an example for younger players. I can tell you this we will not have that issue with Lammert, Holland and Papi..........ever.
"Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"
Says you. McClellan and Lewis watched Brown get benched and that hasn't stopped them from doing things that offend Barnes.
But that's fine, we can disagree. Let me ask you this, if you are Papi, are you pissed that your coach took away any chance you had to win the game just to prove a point? How can you not be.
This post was edited by DLev 14 months ago
No actually says Rick Barnes and my thoughts and your thoughts don't make any difference. BTW in these situations Coach Barnes is almost always correct.
Don't give me that, this is a discussion board. Rick Barnes is far from infallible and the whole point of this discussion is whether what he is doing is working. Of course he thinks he's doing the right thing, that's irrelevant.
What in the past 3 years of actual results suggests Barnes deserves the benefit of the doubt on how to motivate his team?
Next time I talk to Rick I will tell him to give you a call.............
What a BS cop-out.
The biggest thing Brown would add to the team is leadership, which this team is sorely lacking. Everyone seems to be looking for someone else to take charge of the game. You have freshman leading freshman. He would elevate everyone's level of play. Hopefully Kabongo can do some of that over the last few games. Maybe after he remembers how to make a layup.
Read the entire thread and take a class in basketball/coaching basics then come back and post. ...............I've often wonder why an intelligence test wasn't required to post on certain sites..............
I read the entire thread. It was a rational discussion (by both sides including you) until you went to the "well the coach must know best" card rather than answering his question about the effect that the benching would have on Papi or presenting any evidence that he is correct for benching McClellan and Lewis.
Of course saying it here doesn't matter and obviously Barnes thinks it is the right move, but that wasn't the discussion. Nobody thinks that Barnes is intentionally sabotaging the program. The discussion was if what he was doing was the correct move. A discussion that whether it pertains to Rick Barnes, Mack Brown, Augie Garrido, Deloss Dodds, et. al. takes place here every single day.
Nice unwarranted and unsupported personal shot at my intelligence though despite the fact that we've never met. I'm sure you can tell how smart I am from the one sentence post. I don't need to know a thing about basketball (I do, but it is irrelevant) to know that just because the coach is doing it doesn't necessarily make it right.
This post was edited by utsal 14 months ago
Barnes being "right" the last few years have yielded what successful results?
I never saw anything remotely resembling "leadership" from one J'Covan Brown.
Poor body language? Sure.
Poor attitude? Absolutely.
Great basketball skills? Unquestioned.
Dude, you're better than that.
You've got two pending questions that you've intentionally ignored:
1) If you are Papi, are you pissed that your coach took away any chance you had to win the game just to prove a point?
2) What in the past 3 years of actual results suggests Barnes deserves the benefit of the doubt on how to motivate his team?
Barnes made the NCAA tournament the last 14 years. Unless you understand college basketball that doesn't mean much. There are over 325 teams that play college basketball so yes Barnes knows what he is doing and J Brown was the beneficary of his tough love. McClellan and Juice might be the beneficary of tough love if they buy into the system. I am a Rick Barnes fan and I don't apologize for that......
Mack coddles, Rick is a meanie, and Augie is a foodie.
Seriously, these kids knew Rick's style when they signed to play here. Who's the coach? My guess is if you want to play, you need to do it his way. It's a tough year for everybody.
My biggest issue with Barnes is recruiting which is where people swear he's been so fantastic. I just disagree with that. Rankings be damned. We struggle to identify guards that can shoot, dribble, and understand passing angles. We have five guards and two decent ball handlers. Only one guy can get his own shot off the bounce and he's played two games. But even he has nothing besides getting to the basket. No pull up jumper, no three point range, no floater.......
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that J'Covan benefited from tough love. Did he get a lot better during his three years here? Sure, he scored more his junior year, but that was more of a function of being the only option. All three years he was the best player in the NCAA tournament.
I support Rick Barnes too, and his tournament streak is impressive. It certainly doesn't mean that he is infallible and some of his methods can't be questioned. I think he's a hot head when it comes to putting players in the dog house or benching them. I think he has a tendency to cut off his nose to spite his face. I think he overreacted in 2010 when the team started to play poorly. As DLev said, he goes to the nuclear option too quickly.
Barnes told a story on the LHN about the '03 OU game. Brian Boddicker made a mistake and he told Boddicker that he wan't playing the rest of the game. TJ Ford asked him if he wanted to win the game, because if he did he needed to put Boddicker back in. Barnes told him, "I can't, you heard what I just said." TJ replied, "fine I guess you don't want to win the game." Barnes put Boddicker back in, and he hit a few threes to start the big rally to come back. There's nobody other than TJ Ford that could do that. Maybe if TJ is there the next year James Thomas plays more than two minutes against Xavier in the Suite 16.
Additionally, your whole attitude that anyone who doesn't agree with you is unintelligent and doesn't understand college basketball is beyond ridiculous. As is your use of ellipses.
J'Covan didn't lead in the traditional "rah-rah-slap-the-floor-like-Wojo-smile-all-pretty-like-Mateen-Cleaves" way, but he lead plenty with his play. His attitude was amazingly improved last season. His body language as well. It's silly to hold his sins from years past against his performance last year. J'Covan was freaking nails last season and would mean a TON to this year's squad, which can't seem to figure out how to score for long stretches.
J'Covan led last year's team in games started, minutes played, FGA, FGM, 3PA, 3PM, FTA, FTM, FT%, and scoring. He was 2nd on the team in 3P%, assists and steals.
Signatures are stupid. You should block them.
No. He's not.
............the Boddicker story is a good one but remember Brian wasn't taken out because of lack of hustle but making a mistake. There is a difference................IMHO
The story also illustrates Barnes ability to laugh at himself and give other people credit. It shows Barnes admits there are some things other people do better. That's why I am a fan of him personally. Having said how much I like Barnes next years can't be like this one and last year. The thing is he knows it better than most people and can handle the pressure better than most.............think Mack Brown who wants to blame everybody but himself. Coaching at UT requires thick skin and I think Barnes has it.............the fact he would sit McClelllan and Lewis for lack of hustle proves that to me..........
Body language? Lol. Never knew that was a bb trait. Anyway, anything is better than what we've got. He at least knows what college bb is all about. If nothing else, he can buy a 6-pack without asking somebody to get it for him.
Probably four, possibly five additional additional wins. 15-9, 16-8. Look at the number of games we've lost in the last four minutes because we couldn't score. Brown had his warts; but the guy was a go to scorer in end game scoring.
There were plenty of games in which Texas went long stretches without scoring last year with Brown on the floor, many times due to Brown bricks and turnovers. In addition to being the leader the stats you mentioned, Brown was also third worst in fg % (ahead of only Kabongo and Lewis), third worst in effective fg% (ahead of only Kabongo and Lewis), and third worst in pps (ahead of only Bond and Lewis). Think about that for a minute. The guy who would be asked to handle the ball and take the foul and shoot the ft late in games and so led the team in FTA was almost at the bottom in points per shot attempted. I'm not talking about effective field goal percentage here. I'm talking about total points scored divided by field goal attempts. Is that really the profile that says great offensive player to be relied upon? Of the top 20 scorers in college basketball last year, only Alex Young of IUPUI had a lower pps, and that was by a razor thin margin. How can anyone seriously argue that Brown didn't rely on volume shooting to get his points? He took more shots per game than any UT player since Kevin Durant.
Was Brown the best player on last year's team? Yeah. Did he have a good attitude for most of the season? Yes, although there were times you'd see his temper get the best of him and see him get out of control. Was he the leader? Yep, but that made his lapses in judgment all the more damaging. Would he be the best player on this year's team? Yeah, probably. Would he have proven to be immune to lapses in judgment this year? I doubt it. One of his final plays for Texas was to hold the ball in front of him until a Bearcat stole it with 3 minutes to play in a tie game.
Could he make a poor to average team into a really good one? No. He didn't last year. He made it into a team that barely, just barely squeaked into the tournament. I don't see why we should think he would do much more than that this year.
If this team had Kabongo and Brown and Holmes all year long, then maybe it would be a contender for the top 3 in the conference, but Brown alone wouldn't have put this team there. He was a really gutty player at times, and when things broke down he was a decent bet to get a look or draw a foul, but he just wasn't the super cure-all offensive player some are trying to make him out to be.
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