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I think OKC made another shrewd move although I always enjoy watching Harden. He did look pretty awful Kate in the playoffs but some of that might have just been youth. Essentially, the Thunder get Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb and two 1st round picks for Harden and some role players. Harden will be a great addition for the Rockets, who have money to pay him. OKC made their priorities KD, Westbrook and Ibaka. Hard to fault them for not having enough $$$ as they are a small market team that needs to operate like the Spurs.
I think it's a bad deal for this year, but a great move long term. Lamb looks like he can be a pretty good player, and the draft picks will be valuable.
For the Rockets, I think it is good for this year, but WTF are they thinking giving up the picks? Unless they can sign a legit player this offseason, they will be top 10 picks. I don't see Harden as a max contract guy that can carry your team deep into the play-offs.
Rockets gave up way too much
Not a big harden fan anyway. Lets see how is can get his shot without Durant and Westbrook
I think Morey basically knew he had to something radical since the rockets have been stuck on suck for some time
Agree with ktroot. Rockets gave up way too much for a guy that isn't what you build your team around.
Rockets got an impact player in Hardin for sure. It takes 2 or 3 of these to build around to win a championship so it gives them one. He also is young so there is time to add other pieces around him. This would have been a great pick if they had not given up the first round picks. This deal IMO is very mediocre for the Rockets and makes them a better team now but unfortunately by losing their two first round picks they have no real shot to become a contender in the foreseeable future…unless they land a huge free agent like Dwight Howard. I have to believe this is the plan.
I think it was a great move by OKC as they were going to lose Hardin next year in free agency and they acquire a good scorer in Martin and potentially good player in Lamb..but the big part is they infuse two first round picks that will be higher than their own picks into what is already a contender. The GM for OKC is golden and reminds me of what Jon Daniels is to the Rangers in baseball. OKC is going to be very tough for many years to come.
The Rockets gave up draft picks that they acquired specifically for the purpose of trading them for a franchise type of player. I realize that they have already traded their own away but were they going to get a star player to build around with their own picks which if the pattern holds would be in the early-mid teens?
Take a look at the Rockets roster, almost all of the players are in their first 3 yrs in the league. Do they really need another middle of the 1st round rookie or 2nd rounder to add to an already young team?
While it would have been nice to have the Raptors pick if was towards the front of the lottery, the pick is protected for the next three yrs and has to fall 4-14 in 2013, 3-14 in 2014 and 2015, 2-14 in 2016. If the Raptors make the playoffs for the next five yrs they keep their pick and the Thunder will get the pick no matter what the next yr. Harden was the #3 pick in the draft by the way and is a proven commodity. The other pick is Dallas' 1st rounder which is top 20 protected. At this point, there is no telling exactly what the Thunder got here other than to say two 1st rounders sometime between 2013 and 2017 and the Bobcats 2nd rounder. Might be a high lottery pick, might not.
Martin won't be with the Thunder after this yr, his contract expires and he makes too much for them to keep him. Lamb could be a good one, but the operative word is "could".
I really like the deal. I think Harden is player that will continue to grow as his role and responsibilities do. The Rockets still have a long way to go but where else were they going to get a player of Harden's caliber? Maybe they'll be able to attract another big piece in free agency now that they have some foundational players to build around.
Pretty good deal for the Thunder, they got some pretty good pieces in return for a player they were going to lose and avoided the yr long circus that was sure to accompany the situation. The only issue I would have if I was Thunder fan is the loss of a proven player for one yr rental of a one dimensional player and the unproven potential of a rookie and three draft picks that always come with risk. Presti is damn good at drafting, so that lessens the risk but only so much.
I think its a dumb move for both teams, although financially it makes sense for the Thunder. I love watching Harden but he's not the best player on a deep playoff team, he could be second best player but the rockets just gave up too much. The Thunder gave away a person essential to their playoff run (even if he played poorly in the finals) and a ton of chemistry for 1 year of Kevin Martin, Lamb and some draft picks. It's not bad, but what OKC and Presti just said is we can't compete with the Heat and Lakers and we're not even going to try, despite them making the finals last year. If Durant makes the baseline jumper in game 2 OKC is up 2-0 and we could be talking about a possible Thunder dynasty. Presti and Bennett with this trade said that we're a small market team that values a couple million a year more in our pockets instead of a chance a multiple titles. They can get back there because Durant and Westbrook are a great core, but Kevin Martin is not Harden, not even close. Not from a talent perspective, and not from a chemistry perspective.
The interesting thing about this trade from an evaluation stand point is that it is all comes down to how you feel about Harden. I think he is a guy who can take the next step. He's a guy who was capable of carrying the Thunder from time to time but didn't have to because it was needed with KD and Westbrook there. In Houston, it will be expected. I like the deal because I think he will, although the Rockets will struggle at times due to youth and a lack of across the board talent. Those that think Harden is strictly a complementary piece think less of the deal.
Saying he was the 3rd best player on the team is a bit unfair when he is being compared to the second best player in the league and the team's primary ball handler who is an athletic freak. I'd rather have Harden than Westbrook, but then I am partial to PG's that distribute more than jack.
So incredibly false.
Neither of the 1st round picks the Rockets gave up are theirs, and both are protected.
Toronto's is 3 protected for 4 years, while Dallas's is top 20 protected this year. The 2nd is from Charlotte so there is a good chance it's 33/34 next season.
So the Rockets will still have their own picks to do whatever they want with a young nucleus and a lot of money. Smart decision by Morey to trade away assets for an established star.
OKC made the mistake of extending Perkins, and it cost them a really good player.
This post was edited by NLeininger 18 months ago
Yeah, just read the exact picks that were traded. Makes more sense now.
I like the deal for both teams.
Regardless of Perkins being extended OKC wasn't going to be able to sign Harden for the max. LA/Miami/Brooklyn/NYK are the only teams with 3 max(or near max) guys. OKC has 2 max and one near max.....did people really think Harden would be signed if he pushed for the max?
The smallest market in the NBA was not going to be the first team in history with 3 max contracts and one near max guy.
Its a step back for OKC in the immediate aftermath. They will miss Harden's play-making. Maynor coming back helps a little bit as far as the first 3 quarters but Harden was becoming a focal point in their crunch time offense. Long term this gives them the one thing they wouldn't have had if they extended Harden.....options. They can now make moves with more than just veteran minimums and late 1sts at their disposal all while still being a contender.
For Houston, Morey finally got a guy who has star power(potentially) and could develop into their franchise building blocks(or one of their franchise players) as it sounds like they are going to give him the full max 78 mil/5 years. Thanks to his own shrewd moves with Lin/Asik they will have enough room to go after a max-type player this offseason(Josh Smith seems to be the guy most believe they will go after).
Anyone arguing that Rockets gave up too much and OKC got good players back simply aren't informed on the players or contracts involved. Kevin Martin is the most flawed SG in the ENTIRE NBA. He's a huge liability on defense and that's the scouting report on Jeremy Lamb as well. Martin is an efficient scorer and a team as deep as OKC can probably live with his glaring deficiencies, but no Rockets fan will miss Martin, and Lamb is vapor wear at this point.
Hardin is the best player the Rockets could get via trade and brings a lot of positives to what was before the worst roster in the Western conference. Now, they have a formidable 1 and 2 with some all star potential, youth, and most importantly, MONEY LEFT TO SIGN A MAX CONTRACT IN THE FOLLOWING OFFSEASON. That's why this move was made.
Would the Rockets have preferred a top 10 NBA player? Well of course. They tried several times and failed, so are now taking a bit of a gamble on a young guy in the next tier who possesses everything you want from a player from a talent and basketball IQ standpoint. By all accounts, Harden is a great team mate and isn't trouble off the court.
The Rockets have been stuck for 3 years and are having to take some risks on players like Lin (still not sold he can be good) and Harden. Now, they hope that both players take their games to the next level, Royce White gets his head right (arguably the most talented player in the draft last year), and someone in the pool of Terrance Jones, Marcus Morris, and Chandler Parsons emerges. If if they don't, they will still be in a position to offer max contract money to a top tier player next season and the Harden deal make Houston that much more attractive.
This is a good deal for the Rockets. Makes too much sense from a talent and dollars/cents standpoint.
This post was edited by Texas 35th 18 months ago
The Rockets actually traded their own 1st rounder in a trade a couple of seasons ago with NJ/Brooklyn. That pick has been traded to atlanta. It's top 14 protected through 2016 and would become a second rounder at that point. Very likely the pick goes to Atlanta in the 2013 draft. Atlanta also owns out second rounder, top 40 protected, from a deal last yr.
At this point they have no picks in the upcoming draft. I don't see that as a problem given what they just used the picks for.
Spot on. It means they won't be competing for the championship this year but it sets them up long term. Durant and Westbrook are young enough and the lakers and heat can get older.
The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle.
You want to be really good and competing for championships or really bad so you can have a chance to draft the franchise player.
When you are in the middle you give guys max or close to max contracts who aren't franchise guys and you basically ensure that your team will always be in the middle.
Now IMO the Rockets are set to be in the middle for quite some time with no draft picks and ultimately bad to poor contracts.
How do the Rockets have bad contracts? They will be able to sign another max contract next yr. They seem to be in a pretty good position contract wise, seems like they have a good deal of flexibility going forward. Lin and Asik aren't close to max contracts. The rest of the team are pretty much on their first contracts.
The picks the Rockets gave up are the almost certainly the dreaded middle of the round picks you just described. If the Rockets absolutely suck they will keep their own pick, it's top 14 protected. The Raptors pick that they gave up will most likely be at the back end of the lottery.
This move was made for the very reason you stated, you either have to be at the top or bottom, the middle is purgatory. They now have a player who they can build around. I'm not totally enamored with Lin, but he can be a good piece around Harden. Asik gives them good rebounding and D. They still have a lot of needs, but have a very young team and salary cap room to go with a star player that other players respect and will want to play with.
Agreed about Martin. One of the most overrated players in the entire NBA. I have hope for Lamb long term.
A friendly reminder from John Hollinger, "The Rockets are looking good. Reeeeal good. They gave up some choice assets they'd accumulated to make a deal just like this one, and in return they finally have a go-to star on the wings. Harden will have a max extension faster than you can say "beard," and Rockets GM Daryl Morey can finally move forward with the post-Yao strategy he's been working so hard to initiate.
And here's the really scary part: Did you know that Houston still has max cap room next year, even after giving a max deal to Harden? You don't think the Rockets might be an attractive destination with a Harden-Lin backcourt and all those kids (Terrence Jones, Donatas Motiejunas, Royce White, Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons)? Yowza."
Signatures are stupid. You should block them.
Uh, what did the Rockets give up? And on what planet is a guy that scores with his efficiency not a guy one can build around?
I can't believe OKC let him go without trying to make another run with him.
No matter how this works out, at least the Rockets made a move instead of settling for the 14th pick in the draft for like the 4th straight year.
Actually this trade makes it much more likely that they would be in that area again. However they are a lot more attractive to the 2013 FA class. As they have a solid backcourt with Lin and Harden, and a lot of young guys athletic guys in their rookie contracts and enough room for another max contract.
Depending on how Jones, Do-Nuts, White, and Parsons look will probably determine in what way they want to go in FA. I can guarantee it will be a forward, just not sure whether it will be a SF or a PF.
Actually, before this trade the Rockets were headed for the worst record in the West and possibly the entire league. I thought they were tanking while collecting revenue off of Linsanity. With the trade, I think they are projected to be a little better but as some have stated, their draft status for next season doesn't really matter. They are banking on being able to acquire a headline player in FA or via trade by luring them in with Lin, Harden, and a few young guys.
My opinion is that Harden is not a player you build around but rather a supporting cast member and thus a max contract for him = a bad contract.
And Lin's contract is not a good contract.
I would say that is the general consensus around the league.
In 2014 it is going to be dicey as well when Lin, Asik, Harden and free agent X are making over ten million dollars a year.
I don't know what GM around the league when thinking of the core of a championship team would pick those three players plus a free agent to be.
That is basically your entire salary structure and say hello to the lux tax.
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