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Texas basketball recruiting notes thread

  • Thank you for correcting me. I thought Thompson was 4 yrs ago. Seems like forever since we've been relevant.

    With Kentucky I was trying to reference this season. They have a blah season and then go out and have the best recruiting class in the nation.

    This is what I get for rushing a post while on my way out the door.

    Look, bottom line is I talk to a LOT of players and AAU coaches. They all have the same impression and make the same comments. Players like Kentucky because they put guys in the league, and usually after one year. They look at Baylor as having that same ability, though I don't really know why. Now that Smart went to OSU and blew up everyone forgets that Ford was on the hot seat entering the season.

    When these guys see UT, they don't see KD, TT, DJ, or TJ right now. They see Brown, Kabongo, Hamilton, James, etc. These guys came in with AAU hype. They came in with some talk of them being early entry 1st rd draft picks. With Brown that was NEVER going to happen, but try telling that to AAU coaches or kids that saw him play in H.S. They see Ridley go from 5* to looking like he has never played basketball before.

    I literally just got into an argument this afternoon with a former college player about this same thing. He tried to tell me that Baylor is getting guys ready for the league while UT is hurting their draft stock. When I mention Perry Jones going from Lottery pick to late 1st rd, he deflected and went to Kabongo, Hamilton, and James. All 3 were expected to be 2 yr guys and then be drafted high. Oops!

    I do think kids want to win, that's why Duke, Kansas, UNC, etc usually recruit well. But, I think it is not as high on the list as everyone here likes to make it sound. If they weren't putting guys in the league it would be a different story. It's just one of 5-10 factors, and from most of the guys that I have talked to the last 10 yrs, the NBA factor is at the top. If winning was at the top Butler would have had unbelievable recruiting classes after going to the NC game two years in a row.

    I know I am making a general statement, and that it doesn't fit all players. But in my experience it is a pretty accurate statement.

  • I do agree with most of that but Hamilton was a first round pick. Our recent commitment listed KD as one of his favorite players. KD isn't even at his peak or won a championship so I find it hard to believe that at least some players don't see him over the most recent players that have left UT. You are right about Kentucky and everyone knows that but not every 5 star player can go to Kentucky and get the minutes to leave after one year. I feel like winning will be enough to get at least in state players to take another look at Texas again that they are no longer doing anymore. And I am talking about those that go to Kansas or North Carolina. The players that do want to go to the NBA but, would like to win before they get there.

  • I get it with Hamilton. He came in highly ranked like Perry Jones, and then got selected in the late 1st like Jones after 2 yrs. I get that. But, people look at Jones as being stupid for not leaving a year earlier when he could have been a lottery pick, and Hamilton as someone that had to leave before he was undraftable.

    When I mention KD people always say, and rightfully so, that he could have gone anywhere for one year and been a top 2 pick.

    I also think out of state recruits look at UT differently than in state kids. In state kids (and their AAU coaches) thought Brown, McClellan, Lewis, Ridley, James, etc where better than they really were. Out of state kids don't really know them except for what they see on t.v. so there is no disappointment when they underperform.

    And I could be wrong, but I don't see us winning many recruiting battles with Duke, UNC, Kentucky, or Kansas anytime soon. There are too many negatives around our program right now. From winning, NBA drafts, bad relationships with AAU coaches, negative recruiting, etc.

  • FWIW, Ridley was a top-10 recruit, so other people were in the boat.

    It wasn't until I watched him against guys his own size that I realized that in the HS game tape I watched there was a lot of CR backing down a smaller guy and shooting over him.

    Losing Randle was a bad omen. Oubre, too. You don't think Ridley didn't tell him that RB has been a maniac?

    As Jerry Reed once sang, they got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • HoopsCoach, I agree with nearly everything you are saying, and with respect to the point that kids are looking to get to the show, I would point to the case of Dominic Woodson pulling his commitment to Baylor upon learning that Isaiah Austin and Cory Jefferson were returning.

    But yeah, RECRUIT INTEREST = (NBA grooming) + winning + limelight + (relationship with coaching staff), and under that formula, Texas doesn't look so hot right now.

    NBA: Last two top 25 type prospects have struggled--Ridley performing far short of ranking (and short of reasonable expectation, just not so far) as a freshman, and Kabongo going undrafted as a sophomore. Big ouch.

    Winning: Only one season anywhere near the conference title in 5 years, no second weekend in the NCAA.

    Limelight: Randle seeming to be asleep. Crowds around 4,000. No Big Monday appearance this year.

    Relationship with coaching staff: Two top 100 prospects leaving unhappy after sophomore seasons. Not good.

    The saddest thing is that things were really quite OK just two years ago with Texas coming off a disappointing loss to Arizona, putting 3 guys in the first round, and landing a class that included Kabongo and three top 100 in state prospects and was about to sign a class that included in-state top 25 Ridley and in-state top 75 Ibeh. Since then the decline in Texas's fortunes in recruiting has been quite pronounced, and I don't see factors1-3 improving a whole lot this year, despite all I'm hearing about better player attitudes.

    Maybe Ridley will be the monster Fraschilla was suggesting he might be turning into, maybe Felix and Harris can be penetrating PGs who can distribute and finish, and maybe Texas will find three point shooters open all over the floor. I hope all these things happen and Myles Turner will decide Austin is the place to be.

    But that is burnt orange colored hope, and all must forgive me for hoping.

    This post was edited by bierce 8 months ago

  • Texas made the final 8 for Turner along with KU and OSU in conference and Arizona, Duke, Kentucky, Louisville,and tOSU out of conference.

  • If Ridley is that good, Texas won't finish sixth in the league. But when has RB maximized a guy of Ridley's, um, dimensions? Ibeh? That's different.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • I'd been avoiding this thread as I'd been avoiding the depression (to me) that is Texas basketball. However, getting caught up I just wanted to compliment everyone on a good/fair discussion.

  • A couple of offers to report:

    2015 Doral Moore, 7' C from Georgia who impressed a lot of schools this summer, getting offers from Indiana, tOSU, Georgia, Georgia Tech, and Cincy and attracting interest from KU (but no offer yet).

    2016 Josh Hall, 6'7" SF playing with Genesis Academy (a basketball factory in Lynchburg, VA) and with RL9 (a Rashard Lewis sponsored AAU Team). Has offers from Arizona, KSU, SMU, Okie State.

    He gets 8 seconds here starting at 0:45.

    And 10 seconds here starting at 0:58.

    Skal Labissiere vs Doral Moore @ AAU Natio...

    Two of the top centers in the class of 2015 squared off in Orlando when Atlanta Xpress and Doral Moore took on Skal Labissiere of the Arkansas Wings. Stay tuned for more of both and their teams from Scarberry Media.

    Produced by Daren Scarberry

    Scarberry Media - Creative Minds - Creative Media
  • It's been 17 days since I put anything here. How time has flown. I suppose news about in-state prospects who had already eliminated Texas wasn't important even if a lot of commentators felt the need to use Mudiay's commitment to SMU to be a new harbinger of doom. (At least one writer did opine that Brown would likely retire after Mudiay and Turner combine with Frazier to get SMU to at least the Elite Eight, but I beg to differ. Brown never retires. He just moves on to the new gig.)

    Anyway, so there is something to keep this thread alive, Jeff Newberry, a JUCO PG who has received interest from Texas, has a blog posted by Zagoria. He mentions his list of interested schools (a very long list) and suggests Texas will be among schools out to view him in September.

    Meanwhile Ahmed Hill, who was in the warm category for Texas a few months back, trimmed his list to 5, eliminating Texas.

    On the Green Board, Jerry Meyer confirmed that Mudiay's commitment did make Turner add SMU to his list. Goodman reports the same.

    Coach Shuh is telling Turner he's a one and done.

  • I am pretty much done with recruiting considering how bad it "seems" to be because, we seem to think if you don't have kids with four or five stars next there names on your team you are in serious trouble. Which may be true however, I am just waiting for the season to start.

  • I'd settle for a guy who is 6'7" or better, can handle the ball on the perimeter, has a good outside shot and the ability to drive, and has quickness to cover opposing quick 3s; a point guard taller than 5'10" who can dribble, penetrate, pass, shoot and cover; a post player who can hold position, rebound, get a shot off over the defense, and hit a free throw; and a shooting guard with size and near 40% shooting bta who is also adept at playing defense.

    Funnily enough, those guys tend to get 4 stars or better. Funnily enough, guys like that are needed to win in college. Just one of those things.

  • This could be like the early 80's when our team had a walk on male cheerleader that even made the team. True story.

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  • Why does DeLoss Dodds hate basketball?

  • Yes, the story is true, but no, this team won't be like that one.

    “Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11

  • The season will determine how recruiting goes, if they win it will help and if they lose either the fire Rick Barnes and get a new coach who can breath life into the program or the stick with the old one and the fall continues. Any four or fives on Butler, George Mason, Wichita State? Not saying Texas is going to the final four but it doesn't mean they are buried at the basement before the fist ball goes up.

  • Actually, I had that discussion about 4 star prospects on Butler a few months back with someone on the "Who do you want for the new basketball coach" thread. Butler had four very talented players in Heyward, Howard, Mack, and Marshall, even if Mack was a three star, and Heyward wasn't accurately rated because he played tennis, not AAU basketball, in his summers while in high school.

    I don't really know about George Mason or Wichita State, but I suspect in both cases we are talking about senior laden squads that caught a hot streak in the tournament, and I suspect Wichita State at least had some pretty highly regarded recruits. I'll look it up later.

  • Wichita State was packed with JUCO stars--Cleanthony Early, Carl Hall, Malcolm Armstead--and four star freshman VanVleet.

    Of course, I don't know why you are bringing up the issue of mid-major teams that hit a hot streak in the tournament, when the problem with Texas is that Barnes hasn't succeeded in recent years, no matter whether his team is experienced with highly regarded talent or a mix of experience and youth with highly regarded talent or a bunch of youth with 4 stars:

    (Stars are according to Scout and Rivals composite, since 247 doesn't go back that far)

    2009 Abrams 3* senior, Atchley 3* senior, James 5* junior, Mason 4* junior, Pittman 3.5* junior, Smith 4* junior, Johnson 4* sophomore, 3* Balbay sophomore

    2010--James, Pittman, Mason as seniors, Johnson and Balbay as juniors, Bradley, Hamilton, and Brown as 5 and 4 star freshmen,

    2011--Johnson 4* senior, Hill 3.5* 5th year senior, Balbay 3* senior, Wangmene 3.5* junior, Brown 4* sophomore, Hamilton 5* sophomore, Thompson and Joseph 5* freshmen

    2012--Brown 4* junior, Chapman and Wangmene 3.5* 5th year seniors, Kabongo 5* freshman, McClellan, Lewis and Holmes 4* freshmen

    2013--McClellan, Lewis, Holmes 4* sophomores, Ridley 4.5* freshman, Ibeh 4* freshman, Felix 3.5* freshman, Lammert 3*, Papi 2.5*, Holland 2.5*

    It hasn't mattered. Whether the team was experienced or had experienced 4 stars or not, it hasn't worked for Barnes over the last 5 years with the sole exception being the 2010-11 team that was in the top 5 until the very end of the year and crapped out against Arizona, and that team had a lot of very highly regarded young players (Joseph, Thompson, Hamilton, and Brown).

    So we're supposed to believe Barnes can win with shortened roster (again!) because he has a group of guys who are his type of players? Even though the team doesn't have a wing with length, a point guard who can shoot and penetrate and finish, or a post player who can hold position, rebound, and make a free throw?

    I'm sorry, but while I want to wear orange colored glasses, I am a complete skeptic at this point. I want this team to win. I want that badly. I just doubt things are going to improve much until the program has been overhauled, and I'm not talking about getting rid of talented recruits who don't respond to the coach.

    Maybe Barnes will figure out a way to get the team back into a contender for top three in the conference, and huge credit to him if he does, but I don't see that happening, and the upcoming recruiting cycle doesn't look that promising with so many top Texas HS players ignoring Texas.

  • Bierce I love college basketball and can't wait for it to start. I love the Horns and I will see how the season goes and what the future holds.

  • Saw a tweet from Khadeem Lattin saying he'll be in Austin for the game today.

    Khadeem lattin ‏@just_khadeem 28 Aug

    #ut this Saturday #football day trip

    One day earlier, he was saying he should trim his list.

    SMU making a big push, btw.

  • Sad and shocking to say but if it comes down to Texas and SMU, Texas probably loses him right now.

  • He can go to SMU as long as Turner chooses UT.

  • Saw a tweet that Texas (along with OU, VCU, and Illinois) are looking at 2015 PG Jawun Evans.

    Evans transferred to Kimball from South Carolina. “The reason I came to Dallas is that my mom found a new job, and the school (Kimball) is close by, so it works out.” Evans said.

    Oh, and to think he already had an offer from SMU. Now isn't that special?

    He's well regarded, but Scout seems to be on an outlier

    247--124th overall, 24th pg
    Rivals--83rd overall
    Scout --24th overall, 5th pg
    ESPN--25th pg

    This post was edited by bierce 7 months ago

  • bierce said... (original post)

    Saw a tweet that Texas (along with OU, VCU, and Illinois) are looking at 2015 PG Jawun Evans.

    Evans transferred to Kimball from South Carolina. “The reason I came to Dallas is that my mom found a new job, and the school (Kimball) is close by, so it works out.” Evans said.

    Oh, and to think he already had an offer from SMU. Now isn't that special?

    He's well regarded, but Scout seems to be on an outlier

    247--124th overall, 24th pg Rivals--83rd overall Scout --24th overall, 5th pg ESPN--25th pg

    Bierce man I feel some anger in you. What exactly do you want? If you could make any changes for Men's UT Basketball what would they be? Be realistic though.

  • Jordan91 said... (original post)

    Bierce man I feel some anger in you. What exactly do you want? If you could make any changes for Men's UT Basketball what would they be? Be realistic though.

    I was only trying to convey shock at a recruit's parent getting a job in the city in which Larry Brown is coaching when Larry Brown is trying to land him. That's just amazing.

    I have made many comments regarding what I feel needs to change about the Longhorn basketball program.

    Is it realistic to expect Barnes to be replaced now? I guess not, but I think he has lost effectiveness as a recruiter and will not be able to build contenders for conference titles or deep tournament runs anymore. I hope the current team disproves that notion.

    Is it realistic to expect basketball seating to be dependent on specific support for the basketball program rather than as a bonus for big football donors? No, but until that happens, any replacement for Barnes will have a hard time getting Texas back to regular second weekend status.

    So what do you want from me? I'm still interested in following the program, cheering for wins, and hoping for exciting talent to be recruited every year. I'm still going to report the bits of information that I find regarding UT's recruiting efforts and the goings-on at other Big 12 schools. I like college basketball. I like Texas. I don't think Texas is doing college basketball right, but that isn't going to make me less interested in what's going on, even if it makes me less happy about it.

    This post was edited by bierce 7 months ago