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The place to talk about the Texas Longhorns

6th Street

The place for off topic discussion on Hookem

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Late response to Bruthaman and other OU trolls...

  • mstrat,

    It is a total crapshoot to forecast players at all until their Jr. or Sr. year, and iffy for most even then.

    That said, it is still fun to do.

    Lastly, my main point was we have crapload of NFL talent on our Defense and even Offsense right now. More than I've seen since VY days. Do you really disagree? If so, list the starters on D and O that you feel have no real shot at being drafted in rounds 1-4 iin the NFL. I see only 2 or 3 on each squad respectively.

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  • Three hours later and OU still sucks!

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  • Very good post.

    DEFENSE

    1. I will be ready to see your DTs in action, but Randall was a beast. Outside of him, I wasnt too worried. Against us, they must have been all pro because we didnt make a real effort to run at them. I will watch closely to see how they are withouth Randall.

    2. You have some highly rated DEs for sure, but IMO, they just arent playing as well as rated. Perhaps that will change this year but against us, they were MIA.

    3. We will see about Mr. Edmond. With that size and as mobile as he is said to be, he just may be all that a a bowl a grits. That being said, he better be ready to cover too.

    4. I didnt think Cobbs was a LB in high school. We will see they do when the lights come on. Not much gametime experience.

    5. Ive seen Vacarro play for a couple of years now. Big hitter, but struggles in coverage. With Gideon on the field last year and some of the things he did, Phillips should have gotten the call ASAP. So, we will see if that was a mistake or not this year. If he isnt good enough to move Gideon, I have my doubts.

    6. CB? We will see. We have an entire spring and fall to get used to life without Broyles. We will see what your CBs are all about early and often.

    Overall, your defense wasnt good enough to win against us last year. You think they will be better, I am taking a wait and see attitude. Your OOC wont tell us much.

    OFFENSE

    1. Ash is going to have to improve a ton. He should do that if he is getting the Lions share of the snaps, but will it be enough? Jones was a RS-Freshman so he had some good snaps under his belt before being called on. That being said, he was thrown in the fire and performed well for his first year behind an absolute horrible OL with 3 TEs playing OL spots....LOL. That was fun to watch. So, we will see with Ash. If your running game is for real, he wont have to do much, but thats a big if.

    2. No disrespect, but I am not concerned about the WRs at texas. Maybe they will prove me wrong, but other than Goodwins world class speed, I am not concerned. Their inability to get open coupled with Ash not being able to find them or hit them when they do get open doenst bother me too much. You say they are improved and they just might be, but we will see soon enough.

    3. I havent been worried about your OL in forever. Not even when you had VY but he could make them look great because nobody could tackle him even when pressure got to him. In the Mack Brown era, this has easily been the biggest fail in. Not QB, not RB, not WR, the OL. You say you now have 5 NFL draft picks. Thats good. I will believe it when the lights come on and they perform.

    4. Harsis will make the TEs a threat, so if they are at least servicable, they will see passes their way. In a play-action offense, they are huge playmakers. Youre not high on them and perhaps youre right. Your RBs are very highly rated. We will see if those stars are warranted. .

    5. Injuries hurt us pretty good last year. Its killing our WR corps right now, but that has allowed Metoyer to show what he can do and he has done just that. Im not worried about depth right now. LB is a bit thin, but after that, were pretty good. Especially on the OL with many that are game ready.

    S&C - Our S&C is as good as any in the country.

    So, will our offense be better? No. Not after spring ball it wont be.. Too many WRs out to run a truly balanced offense. I would say I cant tell until fall, but thats not a yes or no. So, its no until the fall.

    Will our defense be better? Yep, it sure will. Mike Stoops has already started to make moves in places to get things going in the right direction.

    Lots of time before our game in OCT, but I like our chances. Stoops has never let texas line up and run us over. I dont think that will happen this year either and Ash wont be able to carry the load alone IMO. But, thats a long way off from now. Lots of things can change between then and now.

    BOOMER SOONER

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • bman must have been delivering pizzas during the Cal game.

  • Dude, it was Cal.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Brutha,

    Thought we'd lost ya. Thanks for coming back with a high quality response. I give you a few shorter ones, as I think you and I have addressed most things that can be addressed prior to taking the field.

    1) On Dorsey, you may not have watched our later games last season, but Dorsey went ape. He was living in the backfield. Unfortunatly, our offense could not score, so it didn't much matter. Our DT's tend to follow pretty predictable progression. Once they start, they have a year of just holding their own. Then the 2nd year, they typically blossom. Looking for that out of Dorsey for sure. The other 4 guys will be used depending on the situation, but each could go NFL. We were strong vs OU at DT, but our LB'ing was quite weak. For some reason, our MLB decided to wait until game 8 to start shucking blocks.

    2) I think you are basically right about DE last year. Jeffcoat and Okafor had 8 and 7 sacks respectively. I certainly expect another level from them this year, and spring practice reports indicate this has happened for Okafor for sure. Jeffcoat hasn't returned from his shoulder rehab yet, so we have to see on that one. But I believe you will find Okafor to be quite disruptive at a minimum. This will be magnified by us having stronger pass rushing skills out of both our DT's and MLB.

    3) Everyone has the same concern about Edmond. Practice reports so far say he was doing very well in pass coverage so far. The thing that is different about Edmond is that when he hits your guys, it's going to have an effect. Our own Cody Johnson was just quoted saying that Edmond was the one guy on UT that you always knew had hit you in practice. CJ was our toughest short yardage guy. I kid you not, Edmond is a different LB than we've had, even since Derrick Johnson. DJ was truly great, but he didn't knock people out. Here is a link to a pretty interesting background piece on him from OB. I think it is pay, so not sure you can access: http://texas.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=500&tid=171842774&mid=171842774&sid=902&style=2

    4) You're right on Cobbs, he came out as an "athlete", but had starred on offense in high school. He was the top "athlete" in Ok, and it was appropriate that I rib you about not landing him. He'll be helping out in pass coverage if Mr. Edmond has any struggles.

    5) I believe you are simply mistaken about Vacarro in coverage. That is something he is known to be quite good at. Gideon, yes, you can take a lot of shots at us about that. The truth is that at one point he actually was our best available S, then after a couple of seasons starting, we didn't have the guts to take him out for the better talents that had arrived. It's a peculiar weakness historically at UT known as "spilt blood", but it seems to be dimenishing with the new staff, starting with Gilbert last season. We may just have to wait for the game, but I believe you'll see Vacarro knock out at least one of OU's players. I am not kidding. He's been a problem for UT in practice... they had to put some serious hand-cuffs on him. Last time I saw anyone close to this was several years ago we had a Safety named Giffin who made brutal hits. Vaccaro is a better coverage guy though.

    6) I expect you'll be testing our CB's as well. The middle is going to be off limits due to our DT's, Mr. Edmond, and Vacarro.

    Overall, I think I illustrated that our defense was good enough to hold OU last year to 3 TD's. That was indeed enough to win, had we had any real offense. We did not, and the game got out of hand with our 7 turnovers, 5 lost. The only good part is the extra motivation that loss will provide to some this year.

    1) Our running game is for real, as long as our OL avoids injuries. We are 5 deep, maybe 6, plus a couple of promising true freshmen. That's a real vulnerability. But you will see in MB, JB, and JG et al, a set of backs the likes of which OU has never faced from UT, at least not since I've watched (17 years).

    2) I can't blame you for your comments on WR. I can tell you it appears quite likely you will face 3 fully functioning WR's this year, rather than 1.5 like '11. As you say, we'll see.

    3) You are factually mistaken about our history at OL. We disentegrated at OL recruiting and development in 2006 class for 4 years. I may post some charts for you on this later if you want to press it. That said, we've only got 5 or 6 playing well this year, so no depth yet, and injuries would expose us.

    4) Re TE's: I'm high on their ability to catch that ball, and that has been missing for 4 years. My only concern is no one can do both catch and block, so it may be a little predictable based on substitutions. All insiders are watching this issue like hawks.

    5) I'd put our Bennie Wylie up vs. your S&C guy any day. Have you heard BW actually does the workouts with the guys? Sometime more than once/day for different groups? The guy is navy seal'ish... Our guys seem to be relieved to only have to practice...

    Mike Stoops as a new DC will always have some changeover issues in year 1. True of all new DC's. You're being quite optimistic to think not. How many guys do you expect are legit NFL round 1-4 guys on your defense? We are looking like 8-9. Manny Diaz is going to have fun in '12-'13.

    Yes, it's true, we've not run up the points vs. Stoops quite like he has. It is one of my future hopes for sure. We've had to settle for the overall series lead, more BCS wins and the most recent MNC. :)

    I actually appreciate the thoughtful/respectful discourse, in spite of your obvious and perhaps incurable bias. Thanks for taking the time.

    JL

    This post has been edited 7 times, most recently by jjloehr 2 years ago

  • Btw, Landry Jones' head coach at Artesia High School was my WR coach in High School. His name is the one legend in New Mexico coaching. After coaching WR's at my school, he (Coach Henderson) went to Texas, then returned to Artesia, where his own father had dominated for decades, as he now does... We did kick their butts en route to our state title my soph and sr. yr... :)

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by jjloehr 2 years ago

  • Overall series you got it. More BCS wins? I guess. We have three. You guys have A rose, an MNC, a Fiesta, I forget the others.

    Stoops says that he isnt changing much at all on defense. Probably simplify the back end, but thats it. That being said, Im not saying our defense will be better based on him alone. I love what we have up front this year. In fact, I am pretty confident in pretty much everything we have minus one safety position. We have hitters, speed and good leverage up front and Stoops didnt have that at Arizona. Again, Mack hasnt been able to line up and run Stoops over since he has been here and I dont expect to see that this year with what we have up front and the way our staff prepares our team.

    NLF players? We have Jeffereson, Colvin, Nelson, Macfarland at the NFL level in my opinion on defense, throw Walker in there too. On offense, we have Jones, Stills, Williams (OT), Shead (OG), Nasakita (OG), Irwin (OG) and Latu (OT) when he arrives. Up front on both sides of the ball, we will be tough. We have talent there and we are deep.

    Most posters here have a pie in the sky view of things. Im more wait and see. We have lots of parts that have not arrived yet, especially power at the RB position and depth at WR. Lots of youth coming in at WR and we will see what they are made of really early in the fall. RB is in good shape, but we need a power back. Millard will handle that in the spring, but we need more than one big back. Then we are also expanding Bells package too so that will help. We usually find a way to make a good fight of the season and I expect this year to be no different.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Overall a good post, but you must not remember the 05 game.

  • What's your take on why OU seems to have backed away quite a bit on recruiting in Texas?

  • Your guess is as good as mine. We land good talent anyway, but it is noticable that we arent as heavy in texas as much. We offer nation wide every year anyway, so that not new and the texas offers show up later in the year. Mike Stoops knows whats out west having just coming from there, so expect to see lots of DBs from that way. You guys get your commits early and that makes it easier to come to texas and get whats left. I would call them leftovers, but when they come to OU, they usually win despite having fewer stars, so perhaps its poor rating practice.

    To build on our offensive performance this upcoming year, I was totally not sold on Huepul. I hope he does a better job as keeping us physical and aggressive. He turned us into a pass first team last year and that costs us a couple of games IMO. The OL is stacked this year so I hope we do some pounding using some of the big backs we have coming in and Millard.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Did you guys run for a lot that game? Not scrambles, but turn and give to the RB and run roughshod over us? You may have, I just dont remember. We werent that good in 05, so it didnt take much.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Ran for 200+ yards and Vince only had 45.

  • Good posts and information from both bruthaman and jj. No doubt in my mind but that OU will be well prepared when we play, stoops can coach, IMO. I wouldn't venture a guess as to the outcome of the game at this point, need to see how we do in earlier games and agree with bruthaman that our OOC schedule won't tell us anything. jj, I hope you are right and agree we have talent on defense and should be very good because the coaching is there too. With the exception of RB, in my mind there are questions at all positions on offense and it would be hard to predict how good we might be and really hard to predict how we will do against a stoops/stoops prepared OU team. This is Harsin's 2nd year so that's a plus. Our OL line can't help but be better and I hope we are improved at the other offensive positions. offensively, we should be better but that's not not saying much. If OU is as good as bruthaman indicates we need to be much improved to win.

  • We should really stick to sports talk! Every man is entitled to their opinion i know. But i am an African-American who takes insult to anyone that attempts to down-grade anyone that had anything to do with the civil rights movement! So please lets stick to sports talk!

    But on topic....Good post! Really! I thoroughly enjoyed it! I, however, would like to point out that ASH is seeing these future NFL'ers in practice everyday. That should make him stellar! He wont see corners during the game like he seeing in practice. Atleast not on both sides! Our offense will be better because of our defense. Thats a promise!

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by texassborn 2 years ago

  • In '11 vs. OU, we fumbled 5 times, losing 3, of which 2 led directly to TD runbacks. I think the other led to a field goal.

    We were intercepted 2 times, one again leading directly to a TD runback, the 2nd to a 33 yd drive and TD.

    All those quick turnovers lead to some fatigue and careless mistakes on defense. Can you say personal foul on Jeffcoat extending their drive to a TD after having stopped them on 3rd down? Really stupid stuff...

    Just don't turn the ball over more than once or none, and we likely eliminate 31 points or more.

    That would be all on the offense.

    How much does Ash have to improve, along with the OL, WR, and RB's to go from 5 lost turnover to 1 or 0? He needs to go from "deer in headlights" to smart conservative game manager.

    Seems like a reasonable hope given what we've been hearing. The sacks in practice that've been reported so far are the kind of thing that will keep turnovers up.

    After all this reviewing, I'm now convinced the whole season rides on our OL.

    And our OL rides on 2 swing positions: C and LT.

    1) Can Espinosa grow strong, or does Walters/Hopkins slide in to C and Flowers into G?

    2) Can Hawkins become consistent, protecting Ash from blind backside hits and pressure, or will Searles keep Paden Kelley by his side at all times?

    If these two questions can be answered positively by Spring Game, everything else is going to fall into place.

    This post has been edited 4 times, most recently by jjloehr 2 years ago

  • Perhaps, but spring game performances are overrated. If your team is indeed going to run downhill at people and only want the QB to manage the game, the OL is without a doubt the key to the season. One thing Ash does have is mobility and I am sure it will be used. If the defense is truly as nasty as you say it is and the OL can get some push in practice, then perhaps they are turning the corner.

    So, to continue with the great sports talk, lets look at each teams schedules, both OOC and in conference. This CBS guy picks you guys sixth. Got a lot of you gus ticked off for sure. What say you sir? Record coming out of the OOC and record in conference and why? Of course we are judging this on a snapshot in the spring, but hey, its the offseason.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • 81, you have listened to the wrong people about Malcolm X. If you want to know the truth, PM me and I will give it to you. Its a great story.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Agree turnovers played a huge role in the game last year. Also agree the season, good or average, depends on our OL and I'll throw in QB play. OU can sell out against the run but can Ash and receivers take advantage of that. Is Harsin's system going to be more effective in his second year? I think there are alot of reasons to be optimistic, our offense should be improved. I don't think we know much until we get in conference play.

  • Couldn't agree more.

    You got a +1 for that.

  • Bruthaman
    You have not only brought ou foootball here, you from what it appears are a man of religious relection. I found your avatar and why you wish to bring a civil rights activist and religion to a football board is somewhat puzzling. It's your right to have opinions about whatever you wish but I think this is not the right place.
    It would be hard for anyone here who think B. Switzer is a good guy, but like Mr. Little he was a product of his time. Switzer had a tough, tough life and learned to win; rules meant little to him, only winning. Mr. Little too had a tough upbringing and did what he thought was right. I judge not either man. This is a football site not a civics class, so don't try and spread the truth, your truth about ou football or Malcom X, it is the wrong place. And like I said earlier, Texas is spelled with a capital T. Didn't they teach ya'll how to spell at the University of Oklahoma?
    Salom Alikom

  • Im not talking about my avatar, you guys are. As for OU football, the discussion between a couple of people here is going great. Why are you trying to ruin it? If you want to discuss my avatar, send me a PM, if not, then lets talk football.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.