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So how long do you give Barnes and his 6 trips past the first weekend of the tournament in a 29 year coaching career and is trending in the wrong direction? I think he should have already lost his job.
His 5 year trend is poor with conference finishes of 4, 6, 2, 5 and 7 with 2 tournament wins.
What makes you think he will be better moving forward as a HC? Has he changed anything about his coaching style or staff to try and better his program?
Not trying to be combative really curious what you may see in Barnes and if he is the right HC to continue leading the basketball program?
Odds are UT will be a below average team in 2013-2014.
This post was edited by PDX Horn 11 months ago
Going to be very tough to make the Tournament next year. Not a tournament, but the tournament.
National Director of Scouting & Recruiting Analyst
Well apparently Dodds wouldn't feel good anyway if too many freshman are on the team and they win the NC:
“You can be really successful like Kentucky was,” Dodds said. “They had five freshmen. That worked for them … But if I were doing that, I wouldn’t feel good about that. I wouldn’t feel good for the university. I wouldn’t feel good for the kids. I wouldn’t feel good for the fans that just barely get to know them before they’re gone.”
There's a lot of truth in this post. He's a bitter old man now...not the same guy he used to be,
I'm just hoping Texas makes the conf tournament
This post was edited by mcb0703 11 months ago
But how long are those guys going to want to work hard and play here for Barnes. Team is going to be pretty bad next year, be interesting to see which approach Barnes takes in coaching it. Will likely be his last year, as it should be.
The "so whatedness" of the comment is to point out the plan to build a core of experienced upperclassmen beginning with the 2013-14 season has proven to be an abject failure with respect to the 2013-14 season. It may still come into fruition in subsequent years, but we are left with the following issues to ponder:
1) Texas had back to back classes with several relatively highly regarded in-state prospects in 2011 (Holmes, McClellan, Lewis all in the top 80 composite) and 2012 (Ridley top 25, Ibeh top 60, Lammert borderline top 100). This year, Texas got one in-state top 100 type (Harris), despite the richest class in-state EVER. I like Taylor, don't get me wrong about that, but to have in-state recruiting run at such a disappointing level can not be easily dismissed.
2) Transfers have become a regular feature in the seascape of college basketball. Some would think that losing 4 players out of 6 to transfer would send up a red flag to prospective recruits. Less kind observers would say the flag should be yellow.
3) Early indications were that the Big 12 was going to lose a horde of talent, and Texas would improve against the conference due to attrition. Then Smart, Nash, Brown, Austin, and Jefferson all decided to return. Then WVU picked up one excellent JUCO and one very specifically skilled. Then KU got Wiggins. Then Texas lost 1/2 of its remaining seniority. While Texas had a decent recruiting class, it runs behind those of KU, Baylor, OSU, WVU, and probably ISU, and it isn't a far cry better than the classes signed by OU, TCU, or KSU. While I doubt Texas will finish as poorly as 7-11, I don't see a leap into the top 4 of the conference. KU, OSU, and Baylor should be the three favorites, and KSU, ISU, OU, and WVU will all be bringing teams with significant talent.
4) The top of the 2012 recruiting class had a disappointing year, disappointing even to those who didn't believe Ridley was going to be a 20 minute, 12 point, 8 rebound a game guy as a freshman. In terms of production per minute, Ridley was less effective as a freshman than Jason Klotz was in 2001-02. Seriously. Klotz was 3.5 pts and 3.2 rebounds with 0.6 TO and 0.6 blks in 12.0 minutes a game. Ridley was 4.1 pts, 4.3 rbs, 1.4 TO, and 1.4 blks in 16.4 minutes a game. (Yes, Klotz could benefit from having freshman TJ Ford distributing the ball, but you can bet Klotz wasn't the preferred target.)
5) Early on in the 2011-12 season (and even in the preseason practices), there were some reports of McClellan kind of half-assing it. There wasn't anything said about any of the other players having issues with attitude or the like. Losing two prospects to attitude issues, if that is what happened with Lewis, makes one have to question whether such will repeat in 2013-14 with some of the guys recruited for the 2012 and 2013 classes, doesn't it? I mean, how confident should we be that Barnes and company can keep a roster of 11 motivated and trying? Don't forget he hasn't even been having to deal with having 13 guys on scholarship wanting playing time. He's been averaging 10 now for 4 years.
None of the above portrays a ship sailing in the right direction. Consider McClellan and Lewis rats if you will for not wanting to stay or not having put in more effort while they were here, but don't forget the meaning of the image of rats running off a ship before it leaves a port.
Finally, I have to ask: Was the plan to build with 3-4 year guys ever really a plan or just a rationalization after the failure to land some bigger names in recruiting?
I'm sorry to say that I don't feel good about the Texas basketball program. This is the first year that I have said that. At the close of the 2012 recruiting cycle, I stated that I thought the Texas 2012 class would have a greater career impact than that of any other school in the conference. I stated that because I anticipated Smart would play at most 2 years and the rest of OSU's class would have no great impact, Austin would be one and gone, and Ellis and White would stew on the bench for a year, then leave as soon as they had a bust out season. I still think the 2012 class will have a large career impact for Texas because it was so deep with 3-4 year players, but it is still a class of role players who will contribute mostly by longevity rather than by peak performance.
I like Papi's versatility (and wit). I like Lammert's effort and envision he can be an effective stretch four. I love Ibeh's defensive ceiling. I think Ridley can be a somewhat effective college post and I loved his intensity in going for blocks. I love Holland's effort on defense. I like Felix's willingness to not back down. I love Holmes's effort on the glass. I look forward to seeing the new guys. I just see a team that isn't getting better so much as it is in a holding pattern.
The returnees will improve, but Texas has still shed nearly as much talent as it will likely gain, and it has done this in a year in which only one guy was likely to be lost to attrition. That is bothersome. Croaker and Harris come in less lauded relative to their recruiting class than were McClellan and Lewis. They may very well prove to be guys who will bust their asses for Barnes and be great team players where we think McClellan and Lewis weren't, but how do we really know they won't be guys who wind up getting seriously pissed off if they lose minutes to Holland or Walker because Holland and Walker hustled a little more on defense?
Sorry for the dissertation, but having been a very ardent supporter of Rick Barnes for a very long time, I guess I felt the need to explain why I am truly disturbed the 2011 class has essentially evaporated. The loss of so many players from that class may have far lingering effects.
Yep. I feel cheated that I barely got to know KD at Texas. It was an awful experience as a fan having him as a Longhorn for only one season. Just flat out painful.
Any of you guys arguing the "wait until a group of young guys who want to be Horns come in and gel for this program!!! just wait, you hating doubters!!!" position terrify me. You are so hopelessly lost on being able to rationally look at anything pertaining to the program that you shouldn't be allowed by your doctors to read anything but Bill Little weekly musings.
What will be your position next spring when dickhead is still coaching the team and a bunch of the guys in this class or the last class are transferring? Wait,... no ... wait...oh....right...wait until next year!!! again. Get someone near you to slap a clue into you for the sake of the rest of this board.
Tons and tons of recruiting mistakes from this current staff:
1) Terrible player evaluation to fit Barnes' hard nosed style of play. If you're going to be a Bob Knight wanna-be, then recruit tougher players.
2) Failure to recruit the JUCO ranks. There are guys out there good enough to be a stop gap and prevent EXACTLY what happened with so many players leaving early to the NBA. The staff failed to see this
3) Failure to play the AAU game in the State of Texas. You've done it before, others are doing it, now all of a sudden we've had a change of heart???
Ok.... well then suffer the consequences.
I'd say there are even more failures in recruiting than have even been brought up thus far but at this point why bother. What it comes down to for me is what is the minimum that Rick Barnes needs next season in order to stay as coach? Honestly it should be the 2nd weekend of the tournament, however we'll be nice and draw the line just at making the NCAA tournament. What are the odds that we even do that? I'd say less than 10%. How are we going to recruit to a team that can't make the tournament for 2 years in a row and likely going to lose it's coach? We wont. So beyond the failures of the past, I'm more troubled by the fact that we're already setting ourselves up for failure in the future.
I'm also with Bierce in that I don't believe Rick Barnes ever changed his recruiting strategy away from one and dones. I think he has always wanted a group of 3-4 year players to go along with the one-and-done, however our recent decline has led to an inability to recruit the Julius Randle's of the world. I have no doubt that the goal was to surround McDonald's All-American's with a strong upperclassmen core (just as we did from 2004-2006) but now we can't keep the 3-4 year players around and none of the 5* recruits want to play here either.
This sort of post is emblematic of the naysayers that think the program is headed in the wrong direction. Newsfact: The Valdez was not headed in the wrong direction until it rammed into a continent. I, for one, will be a strong supporter of Rick Barnes until he rams this program into an immovable land mass. I give that about a week. Until then, BOO on ctj and his ilk.
Don't confuse my depression and realism in regards to where the program is headed with a lack of support. I will root for Texas to win every game, however I also will be considering every way possible to get us closer to that goal. Unfortunately I don't think we can go in that direction until there is someone new in charge.
"naysayers that THINK the program is headed in the wrong direction?"
I can't think of one that played significantly better at his new school.
“Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11
Is anyone actually surprised. This has been obvious for a couple of months.
How many have there been before this year? Let me think--Dion Dowell, Harrison Smith, Mike Williams, Varez Ward, Shawn Williams, Sterling Gibbs. Did I miss any?
Harrison Smith--played 27 minutes a game for Texas Southern. Wasn't great on a team that wasn't good, but he played.
Mike Williams--had a pretty decent senior year at Cincy in 2008-09. Averaged 9.8 pts, 5.7 rbs in 28 mpg.
Dion Dowell--had a somewhat productive junior year for Cougar High, then went for 10.9, 6.8, and 1.5 blks a game as a senior in 07-08.
Varez Ward--um, best not mention that, I guess.
Shawn Williams--37% 3 pt sniper as a junior this year for SMU. 8.5 pts, 5.2 rbs in 33.8 mpg.
Gibbs--sat out the year.
This post was edited by bierce 11 months ago
Sorry I wasn't more clear. I think those kids that want to be here with Barnes deserve a chance to see how well they do. But, if they stumble like last year's team Barnes is gone. I thought he should have been gone this year. He keeps focusing on players that want to be here well here they are so its now or never.
Kinda my point. There hasn't been one that I've said, man, look at those numbers... I wish they had him back.
Not saying they couldn't have contributed, but they have yet to let a real star get away.
Bierce I mentioned two years ago that it looked like we would get none of the top Texas talent that was coming out this year and everybody slammed me. I don't know what I am talking about. Barnes should have been gone last year. Now he has backed himself in a corner with his work hard want to be here players. So it's time to put up or shut up. I don't like how he just releases statements and doesnt' face the public. He is going to try the we are young again but whose fault is that? It's time he came out of his whole and faced hard questions. I want him gone but he has another season here and for the teams sake I hope it is successful.
First of all I suggest you jump. If you had a clue you should have read some of my postings on this subject; you can read can't you? I wanted Barnes fired last year. He says he wants tough players who want to be here and won't quit. Okay he has them now so lets see what he does with them. He has one year to prove himself again. For the sake of the team I hope it works. I don't believe it will but we will see. As for slapping me that won't happen I punch I don't slap. Weak asses like you who hide behind computers slap.
I think the FBI was kind of interested in looking at Ward's numbers.
I thought Dowell had a pretty good end to his career, and he was the one guy I was really sorry to see go. Everyone else was a combination of maturation, more PT, and lesser competition.
Still, it's hard to see how Texas could not have used a 6'7" guy who can hit 37% bta this past season. And to think Shawn Williams left because we recruited Deandre Daniels.
Dowell was not going to play with KD in the house. I liked him, too.
Williams would have been a good piece to have, as well. But 9 ppg in 34 minutes doesn't make him a scoring machine.
Yep, we get it, wait til this year!
As to the Captain Badass literal absurdities lower in your post, I enjoyed them for entertainment.
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