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Herbie wonders if Mack is tired of being made fun of

  • Kelso

    Even Thad Castle like his name, lol. Can you imagine how much muff you would pull if that were your name? I've actually thought about it, and I can assure you I would give Ron Jeremy a run for his money

    "I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existence."

  • Wonder why Case didn't get a nickname?

  • Yeah, probably not a fair comparison. Who took more heat? Chris or David?
    Chris, Major, VY and Daniel is a lot of good years of good quarterbacking. Amazing Stoops has owned Mack.
    Bradford, Heupel, and White probably couldn't crack that lineup.

  • Idiot fans don't realize how bad offensive line play makes a QB play.

    Not a clue.....you placing Ash as the QB on the 2006 team is a stupid Non Sequitur from my previous points.

    Lets take a look at the two seasons:

    2006 Colt McCoy
    13 games played 217 passes completed out of 318 attempts (68.2%) with 7 interceptions and 29 TDs 161.82 rating.

    2012 David Ash
    12 games played 214 passes completed out of 318 attempts (67.3%) with 8 interceptions and 19 TDs 153.28 rating.

    Now before blasting your ignorance above, I want to point out that in two of Colt's games above that he only played in about one quarter in one and about a quarter in a half in the other before leaving the game due to injury. But getting back to my points above about Ash being thrown to the wolves too early and not having near the supporting cast that Colt did in 2006 I want to ask you a question to hopefully spell things out for you with regards to the overall picture:

    Do you think Ash's season in 2012 was really that bad considering that he had a starting line up for the majority of the games in 2012 of:

    TE LT LG C RG RT FL RB FB SE
    Daniels Hawkins Hopkins Espinosa Walters Cochran Davis Gray Roberson Shipley

    As compared to Colt's starting lineup in 2006 of:

    TE LT LG C RG RT FL RB FB SE
    Tweedie Hills Studdard Sendlein Dockery Blalock Cosby S.Young/Charles Finley Sweed

    I will let you go ahead and tell the board how much more experience and maturity that Colt had in 2006 to play with as compared to what Ash did in 2012 not to mention that all Hills, Studdard, Sendlein, Dockery and Blalock all ended up playing in the National Football League.

    At this current time we really don't know what NFL future that Ash's starting line is going to have because most all of them were so inexperienced and still have a lot of time to play their college careers out; but I hope this illustrates my point and spells things out for you and the rest of the overly emotional and instant gratification crowd on this board.

  • Hey Herbstreit has a point, but I have six words for the Buckeye (living in the past is awesome) below:

    Vince Young Limas Sweed Hook'em Horns

    Mack will get them going. Can't wait for the Horns to come to my city this Fall. Big game in Provo, Utah!

  • While the back-and-forth in the thread has been entertaining, there is an error in the thread title. Herbie didn't wonder if Mack was tired of being made fun of. He actually asked if the Texas team was tired of its coach being made fun of.

    Small distinction, perhaps, but still a difference. For one thing, it recognizes that players have to play well enough to win games.

  • What a pitiful response. Thanks for letting us all know that Colt had a better O-line his first year than Ash has had.

    I don't think David Ash's 2012 season was "that bad". Never implied it. I just KNOW he's not gonna be an elite qb. Sure, you can always go back to "let's just wait and see" stuff, but he doesn't pass the eyeball test amigo.

    If you think David Ash would come close to = Colt McCoy with better O-line play, then sweet dreams sugar. Nothing about what we've seen or heard from David Ash suggests he's on the same level mentally than Colt McCoy ever was. NOTHING. The physical tools are absolutely there, so there's that....

    This post was edited by Texas 35th 11 months ago

  • "I just KNOW he's not gonna be an elite qb"

    You know nothing Jon Snow.
    I'm sure you, like everyone else, just KNEW Manziel wouldn't win the Heisman.

    If I'm not mistaken, Ash a a true sophomore had the third best QB ranking in the country midway through the season. Yes, he fell off, but again, he was a soph.

    I have no idea whether or not he'll be elite. You don't either. Let him have his own career and we'll revisit in two years.

    This post was edited by tuco65 11 months ago

  • Did I say that David Ash was ever going to be Colt McCoy moron?

    Huh? Re-read above.

    I said that David Ash doesn't not have to be Colt McCoy; but you instant gratification fans need to give him until this season to really judge him. He played very well in the 2nd half of the bowl game against a VERY GOOD DEFENSE and if McFarland would have came down with some catches he should have made; he would have thrown for over 300 yards and that was behind a pieced together FBS below average offensive line that started Luke Poehlmann at 6-7 and only 275lbs at OG!!!

    This will be the first season since 2008 that Texas could start NFL talent across the board on the Offensive Line and it is going to make a huge difference in our offense. Besides Espinosa, the rest of the OL could play on Sundays and could very well be starters in the National Football League and it is going to play huge dividends for Ash and in production from the rest of the skill positions.

    I will have trust in experience and talent upfront with regards to David Ash's success in 2012 than your "eye test" that doesn't take into account the big picture and attention to detail.

  • You just made my point for me! Manziel passed the eyeball test very quickly, anyone who couldn't see he was a game changer and could take the game into his own hands either wasn't looking or had too munch orange in their eyes. Personally, I kept waiting for him to show weakness!

    Anyone getting their hopes up about David Ash taking things into his own hands and being an elite qb is doing the equivalent of staying on 14 in blackjack and hoping the dealer busts.

    The sad thing is that with better coaching and stronger play on the other side of the football, we could be very good with him simply being serviceable and letting the weapons around him do most of the work.

    The one saving grace could be Major's impact on him (and the offense as a whole). He's the real wildcard this year and maybe he gets something in Ash to click. Again, I certainly wouldn't get my hopes up for someone to take that big of a step between the eyes and in a leadership capacity. It's just not something you see very often at all.

    Hope I'm wrong.

  • Literally, all you keep saying is "there's more detail!" and then point out the obvious that we have a lot of youth on the oline that hasn't had any cohesion. WE KNOW! That doesn't make some of us have more confidence in the evolution of said o-line and the impact that could have on David Ash. I along with many many others don't believe A) Ash's play dramatically improves with better o-line play and B) the o-line play will dramatically improve. That's it.

    And again, with the current coaching on both sides of the ball, David Ash will ABSOLUTELY have to be elite like Colt McCoy for us to have a great season. That's the definition of Mack Brown football at Texas. Elite qb play must overcome weak head coaching, or the season will be a disappointment. Thinking otherwise is blind optimism or ignorance.

    I'm guessing you aren't more than 24-25 years old.

  • "Manziel passed the eyeball test very quickly, anyone who couldn't see he was a game changer and could take the game into his own hands either wasn't looking or had too munch orange in their eyes. Personally, I kept waiting for him to show weakness!"

    Shit, my bad, I didn't realize you had that type of analytical power. In that case I'm with you, Ash will never measure up so let's hand the ball off to the VY2 and hold cross our fingers.

  • I'm sorry, I just have prefaced my first comment in this thread with "In my opinion" with regards to David Ash. If you want to hold your breath that Ash becomes an elite qb (again, something that history has proven is a MUST with Mack Brown as head coach), then you absolutely have that right. Just keep in mind, it's not an opinion that the qb must be elite to win at Texas. That's a fact.

  • And you must be 18 years old.

    Outside of 2009, the good years of the Mack Brown era has been defined by good to very good offensive line play and very good defense. Colt was on the 2007 team that had trouble running the football early in the season before Jamaal just started running away from everyone and look at Colt's numbers that season along with the defensive performance that contributed to that mediocre record that year.

    If you don't think that a QB's play is going to dramatically improve with better O-Line play, then you still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus and don't know a damn thing about football; so I won't get into the detail on OL personnel and why play upfront will improve because you are an overly emotional idiot that has jumped on the skill position and coaching bash bandwagon and won't logically look at anything to get off of it.

    This post was edited by Willow01 11 months ago

  • Dude, during the Mack Brown era, poor OL play has been a constant from my perspective. The saving grace for the OLs were the legs of VY and CM.

    As for the Ash debate, i submit this to you. I have said it for two years now that your next step QB is Brewer. When I watch Ash throw the ball, he doesnt seem to turn it loose when he throws and almost looks calculated and guarded. Overall, he looks tentative. Now, in the spring games that Brewer has been in, he is very decisive, throws the ball like he has no doubt he wants it to go where he is throwing it and throws it with authority. He even went through his reads better. I guess he must be failing a great deal in practice but when I see him play in the scrimmages, he has what Ash does not. He looks to have that skill more than Ash does. That said, Ash must be doing a lot of things right in practice. I just dont see it him yet. It wasnt there in the spring game but maybe summer will do the trick. Brewer looked much better than Ash in the spring game.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • I said the good years of the Mack Brown era have been defined by very good OL play and very good defense. Colt's only bad season his third year in the program had a huge decline in both areas and it effected his performance.

    I have noticed Brewer's abilities and like what I see also; but the last thing that Texas needs is another QB in his first or second year in the program as a starter or even 2nd string. The odds of success with that situation are low.

    Ash is not going to be great and the Longhorns don't need him to be. Fans think that you are going to find a Vince Young, Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford in every recruiting class and that isn't realistic and pretty much impossible. Brewer isn't doing something right or otherwise he wouldn't be fourth string already. Personally I would much rather Brewer take the reins if Ash and McCoy both go down over Swoopes, but the coaches think otherwise. QB and Offensive linemen just all need a redshirt year in programs to develop mentally and physically these days because of the complexity of football.

    Spring ball is very tough to evaluate players going against their team mates. Ash looked comfortable and made a lot of plays in the second half of LIVE ACTION against a VERY GOOD Oregon State Defense. The keys to this season are for Ash, the Offensive line and for Hicks and Jeffcoat to stay healthy and for the defense to show up and play within themselves and give maximum effort every play. If the Offensive line stays healthy then the running game is going to be alot better and Ash will be very good with the play action pass and simple throws to his above average skill personnel.

    Is Ash going to hit 70 to 80% of his passes like McCoy did? I highly doubt it, but he doesn't need to with this highly skilled unit and because he isn't handcuffed by Greg Davis playcalling and sets that were more than predictable.

    There have been plenty of championship teams with average QB play and I think that Ash is going to perform a little above that level from what I saw in the 2nd half against Oregon St and his comfort level in Applewhite's new scheme.

  • Well, nothing is impossible. I thought he may have turned the corner in the second half of the ORst game, but then I saw the spring game and it didnt look any different. We will see early with your OOC @BYU and having a revenge minded Ole Miss coming into Austin. You are higher on the surrounding talent than I am. I just havent seen any of it really do anything to make me think you have a real game changer to allow Ash to be servicable. Even if its there, if your OL doesnt improve, it wont matter.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Ash doesn't appear to be a title type QB, but, realistically, the problem with UT last year wasn't him. It was the ability NOT to tackle. My God it was pathetic, and similar to the title of the thread, humorous. Did we ever figure out what Mack was reading on the sidelines during the Red River beatdown?

  • If you don't think Ash needs to be great for the Longhorns to make it to a BCS bowl, you haven't been following UT football very long.

    It's really simple, without a transcendent qb taking games over, Mack can't win big. Never has and he never will.

    Your trouble grasping this and constantly pointing out obvious factors that we've all considered to support a weak argument make it hard to take your comments seriously.

    Now you're acknowledging Ash won't be great?? Good, that's one thing we agree on. You're assuming the talent around him (namely the o-line) will definitely take a step forward this year? Based on what, Searles track record?? The fact that the talent from previous highly touted recruiting classes is stepping into place doesn't make me or a lot of other fans confident, because we've seen this regime waste talent left and right. Until we see the coaches actually develop the talent, why should this be any different?

    You're talking like a fairly knowledgeable and level headed football fan who hasn't been paying attention more than 5-6 years. You won't find that many fans that have been following closely throughout the Mack Brown era to get on board with you, so try not to get so frustrated when people who are just as knowledgeable and level headed don't agree with you.

    Could the stars align and Mack beats OU and gets to a BCS bowl without a transcendent qb this year? Yeah. Would it make sense to bet on it? That would be idiotic, quite frankly. Again, Maybe Major has a profound impact on Ash, the offense, and the team as a whole, but counting on that to happen would be pretty aggiesh.

  • As much as you claim to know about football, you just can't seem to grasp that older more experienced college football players perform better than younger less experienced college football players.

    Especially on the Offensive line and at the QB position.

    Now go back and read my multiple posts on this thread about the level of talent upfront on the 40 acres since 2008, it was FCS level until last season and last season it was below average FBS level. Even at that level Texas managed to win 9 games and that was dealing with major injuries on the defensive side of the football and some minor injuries on the Offensive side that forced the staff into playing some guys some places that they shouldn't be playing.

    Your comments about a transcendent QB and the Mack Brown era is short sighted because as I said above Greg Davis is no longer here. Texas has as much talent at the skill positions outside of QB as it did in 2008 and really probably has more talent in the backfield than that season. Considering that fact and the level of talent and experience upfront that the Horns are going to put on the field in 2013 if you don't think that the offense is going to be MUCH BETTER in 2013 than in 2012; then you just aren't very smart. Major has much to prove, but he has done well at Alabama and Rice in the past calling plays and I like what I saw in the 2nd half of the bowl game and as I said above that was playing with a pieced together OL playing against a very good defensive front.

    Now the defense is a whole different topic....if you want to continue the coaching staff bashwagon then carry on there. Otherwise your generalizations and claims to be knowledgeable and level headed are comical.

    My first Longhorn game was a famous 6-6 tie against Oklahoma kid and I bet I have been following the program and handicapping CFB longer than you were an itch in your father's pants.

    This post was edited by Willow01 11 months ago

  • See my comments to Texas 35th above.....you don't see to grasp simple football concepts either when it comes to age, experience and physical development when it comes to the OL.

    I want you to watch your Sooner defensive front play against the Longhorns last year and realize that was an experienced but average front that dominated the Texas OL that was starting an injured Hawkins only his sixth game and 2 1/2 months into the program and Josh Cochran who was underdeveloped physically and only in his 2nd year....say what you want about Espinosa and Walters as they have just been underachievers so far in the program. Anyway your guys looked like world beaters in that contest!! Really coached up!! Now watch that same front against A&M's more talented experienced front with cohesiveness in the Cotton Bowl.

    That game exposed your Defensive front for what it was....experienced but average at best. Is our offensive line going to be the same? Well maybe so, but that is certainly better than what it was the last two seasons and that is my point. You guys all think that there isn't going to be any improvement at all and barring injury that is ridiculous.

    Are they going to be great? I didn't say that, I am not saying that they are even going to be very good. But if they are average to good then that is a hell of a lot better than they have been the last four seasons. Is that going to put the Horns in contention for a BCS Title? Not saying that at all, but it will put Texas in contention for a Conference Title and the realities are that is all that we can ask for at this time.

    The realities are in CFB at the present time is that there is Alabama and then there is everyone else and everyone else isn't going to catch up to Alabama's level overnight.

    Bottomline.

    This post was edited by Willow01 11 months ago

  • Dude, I saw your OL get whipped all season, new mexico state and IAst aside. You are correct, starts and age do help things, but you should be able to see that improvement as the season goes on and I didn't see it. Not even in your bowl game did I see it. Our defensive front was exposed way before that A&M game. You must not have been watching. We will see what your OL is all about. They may do better since they aren't going to be asked to block with power.

    As for Alabama, Im not going to concede anything. OUs tradition and history is second none. So, they can roll tide all they want but we own them on the field.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

  • Correct me if I'm wrong:
    OU vs Alabama all time = 2-1-1
    Texas vs Alabama all time = 7-1-1

    signature image signature image signature image
  • Texas vs Oklahoma all time 59-43-5
    But the only thing that counts is Oct 12...

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  • I dont know what you mean exactly but as I tell all the SEC fans I come in contact with, OU is second to none. Our history, past and present, is as good as anyones. We have lost a few but we wont always lose them I promise and we will be right back at the top Sooner than many think. We took a step back a couple of years (10 wins), but we will get it right. We have home and homes set up with TENN and LSU in the future, so our chance to right the ship is coming. \

    Now back to texas, I think its a good move by Applewhite to take you guys to a more spread offense but unless he plans on making Ash run a lot more, it wont take off as much as some might think. Thats why I think Swoopes is moving up the charts so fast. It cant be that he is a better passer than Brewer, but I think Applewhite is going to use a ton of QB running game.

    This post was edited by bruthaman 11 months ago

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.