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Are you hearing anything?
Chip brown is hinting at something possibly going down.
I've heard a few rumblings that Deloss is pushing for some kind of scheduling alliance between the Big 12 and ACC to enhance the non conference schedules in the Big 12 but is totally against expansion while other schools in the Big 12 are for it.
Surely you have to agree if the Big 10 adds two more ACC schools, then we might have a free for all.
Anything on your end?
I believe the Big 12 and ACC are trying to work out a scheduling alliance.
I am told that Florida State would be a target of the Big 12 but they are waiting to see if they might be in the long term plans of the SEC now that the SEC has expanded to 14. There is some thought that the SEC commissioner Slive would like to add FSU.
The SEC wants Texas but as long as Deloss is there, there will be no movement on that front. Same with the Big 10.
In short, nothing would surprise me as it relates to expansion. The problem is that all of this is merely patchwork IMO. Anything done or announced now can be undone the very next year because the Big 12 and its membership are not playing from a level of relative strength compared to the SEC and Big 10.
Despite its prowess and allure individually, Texas is brought down by the Big 12.
I've heard nothing that leads me to believe that stability is coming soon to the Big 12.
This post was edited by BobbyBurton 15 months ago
Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/BobbyBurton247
Interesting take. I would challenge some of your assertions though.
I think the Big 12 is stable for the following reasons:
The 13 Year Granting of Rights is as close to ironclad as you can get. It's not full proof, but it's damn close and serves as a huge signal in my mind teams aren't going anywhere. The only way to dissolve it is to have 75% of the league vote to cancel it out. That's eight teams. I could see six teams being able to find better homes but not 8.
We have a very promising TV deal. Split up 10 ways, all schools are making very good money.
We have an alliance with the SEC for the Sugar Bowl and look to split $80mil between the two leagues. $40 mil divided by 10 is an extra $4mil per team.
Outside of Texas and maybe Kansas, no one else in the Big 12 has better options for conference affiliation. The only darkhorse is OU and OSU looking at the SEC but Slive wants to go East into newer markets.
The other nine schools have signed over their tier 3 rights to fox. Apparently OU and WVU's financial package was really impressive.
Just to confirm, you have ALSO heard about the Big 12/ACC scheduling alliance or that's just something you could see?
I would take SEC in a heartbeat, and the Big 10 in a couple of heartbeats.
It really sucks that over the years, Texas has lost two of it's three main rivals to the SEC. Arkansas and TAMU. Deloss has done some good things for Texas but has been an epic failure at expansion.
That grant of rights won't be worth the paper its written on if the entire conference dissolves (which it will if Texas and ou decide there is greener grass to be had).
Easy to say on a message board but in reality, no. We're not going to just up and leave the conference. We're tied politically to BU and Tech, we're not going to ditch them while we run off. Also what conference will allow our LHN? Unless we do a 180 on our network, we're in this conference for 13 years.
If that was the case, we would have gone independent and make $50mil per year and have all games on an ESPN channel a few years ago. Which I thought we should have done.
what makes people think we're tied to anybody legally in this state? Did you miss A&M leaving?
You're missing the point. We have very good relationships with those schools and they have some very powerful people still politically. That's just another reason why tamu being able to leave was a huge hinderence for us because it just made the anchor heavier. We're the flagship school. We can't do what tamu did. We have more power and funds so we will have pressure to keep Tech and Baylor at our level.
Tamu made some enemies politically but they had the governor in their corner. They played their best poker hand ever and the best time ever and cashed it in.
No. The Texas legislature likes to think they have control in this situation, until they see the numbers thrown at 'em...
The political angle is nice for discussion...but in the end, that's an easy work-around once politicians see the $$$ Texas would make from the Pac-12 or Big 10, without BAY or TTU going along
The "pressure" to keep BAY or TTU with Texas is actually not pressue...that's fear disguised as pressure from TTU or BAY legislatures
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by mcb0703 15 months ago
The Big 12 is not "stable". But neither is most of college sports.
Four teams have left the league in the last 5 years. Texas has openly weighed its options. OU and Oklahoma State would have gone to the Pac-12 if they had been invited.
Regardless of TV contracts and/or the SEC championship game, it's all window dressing. Any thought of stability is a facade as long as Texas has to carry so many others schools when it comes to TV contracts.
I guess it depends on how you define stable. To me, the league is unattractive and therefore unstable over the long haul.
Tech is a public school and we are tied to them more than Baylor. I could see us and tech finding new homes while Baylor gets screwed but not both.
However, I do see where you're coming from.
either way, thanks for the discussion.
The Fighting Texas Aggies would like to say "Howdy". If the departure of A&M from the Big XII did one thing it showed that the supposed political interconnectivity of the Texas schools is one big bag of hot air. Thank you, Governor Goodhair and President Bowtie.
I'm not advocating a Texas departure from the Big XII. I happen to like this conference and would love to see schools like FSU or Clemson or VT added. But...if Texas made the decision to leave for another conference you can be sure ou would be right behind them (same conference or another, no matter) and with the departure of those two schools the Big XII would likely no longer be a viable entity.
The sentenece above Thanks BB sums it all up for me . At present , all we have is a pipe dream of ND joining the B12 . ND has a home & home to help their recruiting in exchange for lip service .
I agree with Bobby that the conference in its current form is not terribly compelling over the long-term. And a scheduling alliance with the ACC does absolutely nothing and sounds like another stupid idea from Deloss. With that said, I think the conference would be in a very different position if 4 to 6 ACC teams were to be added. FSU, Miami, Clemson and Virgina Tech would all be outstanding additions. The conference would immediately be more credible from a sports and demographic (business) perspective. Great geographic additions with very solid football.
My issues with the Big 10 are UT's geographic isolation and I'm only impressed with three or four programs in that conference. The SEC is an option I would consider if grant of rights was not in place. I would only consider a move to one of these two conferences if Oklahoma were included. Like them or not it is important to stay connect with our main rival.
Have you seen the actual GOR?
Also the Big 12 long term is going to have issues with perception on a national scale. It's got 8 teams and most of the matchups that no one in the country cares about. Just one mans
The Big 12 is as stable as any other conference, like it or not. The Pac 12 and Big 10 both have GOR's in place. As soon as someone leaves one of those conferences, then you might have a stronger point.
Four teams did leave the league. Yes, Texas DID weight it's options and so did OU and Okie State. That's in the past. Since then the conference has added two significant protocalls to promote future stability.
The Granting of Rights
The Equal distribution of tv money among all conference members, regardless of # of times on TV
Also, you seem to gloss over the fact in order for Texas to go to another conference, they will have to scrap the LHN as it exists today. The Pac 12 won't allow it in it's current format. The Big 10 certainly won't. The ACC won't or we would have been there already. The SEC maybe but we're not going to the SEC ever. This is not an athletics decision, this goes above the AD, President, etc. Texas will never affiliate with the SEC/Old south stereotype. Generations of UT benefactors and influential alumni, families, etc will make sure that doesn't happen. Also, I don't see a way in hell the Belmont parts with the LHN at this point.
I do agree with you and think the league is totally unattractive for a variety of reasons. There is no redeeming factor this conference has. I'm with you there. And I would love UT to bolt and join the SEC or any of the other conferences as long as we can play OU every year.
Maybe I'm too jaded and pessimistic but I just think we're stuck and our best hope is to wait on what the Big 10 does and see what ACC schools fall in our lap.
One last question, are you confirming that Dodds is seeking the ACC/Big 12 alliance???
Thanks for the discussion guys. I hope I'm way off base but I've been following this for two years.
tamu had cover from the governor and the fact they moved first and left us holding the bag. Plus, we're the Flagship school in the state, we have more "responsibilities" so to speak. Just what i've been told from people at the capital because I was under the same impression you were. But I was shot down.
The Big 12 is a dieing dog that needs to be put down.
I agree. The conference currently is strong but the programs themselves, other than Texas/Oklahoma, are not national draws. Perception will be an issue in the future.
I agree on this. Big 12 took a HUGE hit with KSU and OU embarrassing themselves in bowl season.
Have no doubt this is the info you rec'd...& completely agree about the gov providing cover
I would argue the same thing happened with the formation of the Big 12 with Gov Richards & former Speaker of the House (??)...quite frankly, without their cover, BAY & possibly TTU are likely in Conf USA...but no real difference this time with Perry & aggy
The Big 12 was not stable when 4 teams left and Texas and OU openly weighed their options. If you don't think that it is stable now, then you have a different agenda.
I don't think that the Big 12 brings Texas down a whit. It is important to schedule some good OOC games though. Texas has done that. Every conference carries other schools. If you want proof of that, look to the SEC. There promises to be much more money in the future from sources other than TV contracts. The Big 12 splits those increasingly large pots 10 ways. That will make a difference. The LHN will someday be extremely profitable. We just need ESPN to get their money back. The 12 million per year is not where the money is at, although it beats the 400K per year we used to get.
Even though it doesn't affect me as an Alabama student/fan, as a Texan I really hope that the Big 12 finds a way to get better, or that the league can split up in a way that makes a few conferences better and doesn't result in too many schools getting screwed. I was all in favor of A&M to the SEC because I wanted a three hour trip to see my team play every other year once I graduated and moved back to Fort Worth. However, it obviously had alot of problems. I'm sure this idea isn't that popular with y'all, but I hate that the rivalry between the two ended. I hope that any move Texas makes involves a scenario where both OU and A&M can be played yearly. I realize that probably won't happen as long as Deloss is around (especially not if this ACC scheduling alliance occurs), but I hope it's the goal somewhere down the road. I was honestly very much in favor of the Texas going independent idea. Y'all keep the Longhorn Network, and could play a schedule of as many Texas/Oklahoma schools as needed, plus ND/OSU type series. I don't see that happening, though.
This post was edited by FortWorthTide 15 months ago
Nice to have you here.
Going independent would have been awesome for the fans. I don't know how it would have affected our access to the playoffs, however. Probably would have been a huge detriment.
I'm not sure about that. I think any Blue Blood program (usually defined as Alabama, ND, SC, OU, TX, Michigan, OSU, NEB) except for Nebraska could be a successful independent. The brands (especially in Texas' case) are definitely strong enough to make it work. No Texas or Oklahoma school would refuse to schedule y'all because they need you more than you need them.
As far as playoffs go, I think you'd be in a better or similar situation as far as access goes. If the schedule is A&M, OU, Arkansas, Tech, Baylor, TCU, ND, etc., I think that's more appealing than what you have now. Plus, the lack of a championship game already hurts the Big 12 in terms of perception. I know round robin has its benefits and the Big 12 is deep, but when every other conference matches up their two best teams (theoretically) during the last week of the season, it puts Big 12 teams at a disadvantage. I don't think independence would hurt Texas' position.
I don't give a single shit about A&M and/or renewing the rivalry, but Texas next move needs to be to the SEC. We all know that Deloss wants no part of that, but Deloss has only another year or 2 max before he's gone and we get some new leadership (hopefully Oliver luck). Slive is a smart guy, so hopefully he doesn't jump to 16 too hastily, and waits to put out feelers to the whoever takes over for DD. If Slive is able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get Texas to join, you can be your bottom dollar that OU is coming with us. The SEC is a gold mine as it is, the SEC plus Texas and OU wouldn't have enough cash counters to count the amount of scratch it'd roll in.
The LHN will be a stickler, but there's no reason with the minimal amount of content that it provides as it is currently constructed, couldn't be added content to an already existing SEC network.
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