Horns247 Board

Swoopes played last week, so don't know what you're talking about...

Speaking of Tyrone Swoopes (Whitewright, Tex.) suffered a minor injury a few weeks ago, but told Hookem.com this weekend that he’s now good to go.

“It was just a minor tweak,” said Swoopes. “It only made me miss one game.”

Whitewright lost to Muenster on Friday night, 51-8, but Swoopes said the good news for him was that he was back on the field and healthy.

“I played this Friday night actually,” he said. “I had no problems at all. It was good to be back out there.”

The four-star Swoopes will return to Austin to watch the Horns host Baylor on October 20th. (Munroe)

I look forward to you making excuses though.

Swoopes woefully underperforms during the season... "his team sucks, he has nothing around him"
Swoopes goes to camps and woefully underperforms... "these camps are geared for passing QBs"
Swoopes performs marginally at camps that test athleticism... "derp"

It isn't slightly alarming that Swoopes went up against The Mighty Muenster Hornets (pictured below) and couldn't muster more than single digits?

What are we allowed to use to judge Swoopes right now? You tell us.

well done

You really think a healthy Swoopes at QB led his team to just 8 points? c'mon now. I know you're not that biased.

Whitewright scored in the 30's and 40's in every full game he played in last year (save one where they scored 26). When he's in for a full game this year, they score 47. He limited to punting and they score 6. Another game where he says he "played" and they score 8. You see the word "play" and you assume that he must have been healthy and playing fully in the game where they score 8. Derp indeed.

If you think that Swoopes performed marginally at camps that test athleticism, you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

Stats here.

http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/106531-4-Tyrone-Swoopes?p=4163181#post4163181

Cliffs: the "marginal" results he posted were extraordinary for a guy his size, and better than/on par with VY or Cam at his age.

Here is the response to your issues:

You guys keep pointing to games where Swoopes was injured to make the point that he underperforms during the season. Derp #1.

Swoopes didn't woefully underperform at camps. He was invited to the Elite 11 finals (or whatever you call them). That's not underperforming for a guy of his size and athleticism who has been playing in a run first offense for a small school. Derp #2.

Swoopes' Sparq results are only underwhelming if you can't count. Derp #3.

I've posted these in other places, but I'm too lazy to look them up for you. Go to youtube. search for "every snap" and Auburn 2010 and Nevada 2010. Watch how many times Kaepernick and Cam get to their second read. I think there are 4 or 5 games on there--all or almost all against top defenses, and maybe once in all four games does either QB get to their second read. Combined. All four games. I'm not exaggerating. Watch the games, count, and come back and explain to me why you care about what Swoopes does in 7 on 7 as a junior in high school. If you aren't going to do that, but you're just going to parrot the remarks of some guy who works for a recruiting website and watched Swoopes play 7 on (along with a bunch of other top recruits that guy was watching) just spare me. Every single guy who follows Longhorn sports and has impressed me with their understanding of football likes the Swoopes take *more* than me. The only guys who keep making an issue of the take are guys who---well, they parrot the absurd arguments made here and elsewhere. A lot of the same guys who were calling for Overstreet over Ash at the beginning of the season. Or whose high school eval of Garrett Gilbert was "Colt McCoy with a stronger arm." LOL. Even if I didn't have my own opinion, that would be enough for me.

You guys are so interested in trying to prove a point that you are making yourselves look foolish--at least to me. Maybe I'm the only one. I dunno.

good lord. swoopes is unathletic (hint: only if you combine short, light guys with tall, heavy guys) and low ceiling now???

not even worth responding to.

I also said that he had a limited ceiling, because of how far he has to go as a passer. Very different from low ceiling. But he isn't a "high ceiling" guy, I don't think.

Wildbill71 said," I do also think that the competition he plays is so terrible that you can't even come close to making any sort of evaluation on his athleticism, because he's running away from guys that would be in the band at any school that remotely cares about their football program."

He can't control who he lines up against. Your drive by analysis is probably very unfair to a lot of good coaches and players. The fact is he put up huge numbers and that is why every service in the nation (247, Rivals, Scout, QB Camps, ect) all have him ranked as a top 100 prospect. Tyrone Swoopes at the Nike event measured 6'4 1/2", weighed 228 lbs and ran a 4.7. He has run a 4.5 at his high school and our own Gerry Hamilton thinks he is a 4.6 4.65 kid. Add in a 30"+ vertical jump and a low 4 sec shuttle and you have an elite big athlete.

"When you add all that up with the fact that he struggles with his mechanics against air in simple drills at camps, and the fact that he's an introvert, you can safely come to the conclusion that he's a major project with a limited ceiling because of how far behind the curve he is and how little time he will get in Austin."

Struggles against air is an exaggeration as well. He performed really well at the Rivals event in Atlanta. The fact is he has a legitimate arm for a QB. He plays every sport in high school and doesn't focus on football all day every day. When he gets to spend two years working on quarterback full time you will see a big improvement.

"I think if you are going to take guesses at which way his career goes, it is far more safe to say that he will move to TE or transfer than it is to say he will be a great QB."

Things obviously change with time. I don't see him moving positions.

He cannot control who he lines up against, correct. And I'm not forming my opinion because of who he plays. But he plays 1A and 2A competition on the weekly, and the lowest of the low of those schools. Muenster is a 1a school that just held him to 8 points. I've seen far lesser heralded kids carry their team against higher competition. Hell, Traylon Shead, as a RB, led his 1A team deep into the playoffs multiple times, including win a state title.

He's a good athlete. I'm not denying that. He is not some "once in a decade" athlete that some make him out to be. The truth is that he ran a 4.77, not a 4.70 and not a 4.6 or 4.65, and certainly not a 4.5, had a sub-30 inch vertical, and had a 4.32 shuttle (good number). These numbers do not indicate freaky athleticism. If you want to see freaky athleticism look at Mike Mitchell or Derrick Henry.

He did not perform "really well" at the Rivals event. By most accounts he was the 4th best QB there out of 4 QBs and was extremely inconsistent. He was the worst QB at the Opening and 22 or 23 out of 25 at the Elite 11. He does have a big arm, but where does two years of progress put him, and will he be better than the kids in his class? That's what we're arguing here.

We are arguing because you like arguing. The premise of this thread is so faulty then I am surprised that it has generated the response that it has. Harsin picked Swoopes. He had ample time to evaluate him. I'm happy that he got his man.

marginal.

4. Barely within a lower standard or limit of quality: marginal writing ability; eked out a marginal existence.

(http://www.thefreedictionary.com/marginal)

"Swoopes performs marginally at camps that test athleticism."

That's just false. And his athleticism isn't overblown. For a QB of his size, it's as good as it gets. And size matters in this case. (at the college level, at least).

Of course, you can't just stick an athletic, tall DE at QB and watch points roll in.

If you legitimately think that other QBs are "light years" ahead of him, then I see where you are coming from. But that's not a reasonable opinion. Go back and watch all the attached link and then watch Kaepernick's every snap highlights at Nevada. Tell me which Kaepernick throws you think Swoopes is incapable of making after 3 years with a good QB coach. Tell me you think Kaepernick is more athletic. Now go look at Kaepernick's stats. If we get a decent pan rate from the talent we've been recruiting at O-Line (and should be recruiting at the skill positions in the next two years) a poor man's Kaepernick would be capable of moving the ball at an all-conference level in our upcoming offenses. Hardly a limited ceiling.

It's just not fair at the college level if you are that big, that shifty/fast, and you can throw a few routes (assuming you have a good supporting cast and a good OC). You don't have to be VY or a camp stud. If we still have a good QB coach in a few years and Swoopes develops a consistent deep ball, it's over.

Again, this isn't to say that TS will pan out. I'm not smart enough to make that call, and even if I were, I don't have all the data I'd need to make it.

I just think you guys are waaaaay jumping the gun.

Saying "I have concerns based on the limited information I have" is one thing.

Pretending like you have the data you need to make a legitimate projection/prediction in this case is another.

When you layer on top of that the silly mental gymnastics you guys are performing, like looking at *wins* in games where he was injured and we don't know how much he played, it just takes the absurdity to another level. Why you wouldn't just try to look at the offensive stats of games where we know he was healthy and compare him to other QBs playing against the same competition is beyond me.

Of course, we all know what you'd find. I looked at the stats against Loan Oak, and despite leaving the game with an injury, he was moving the ball at 24 times the rate his backup/replacement did and 2-4 times the rate of other QBs who played Loan Oak throughout the year. He racks up yards and points at an absurd rate compared to other 2A QBs. You can argue that his success won't translate at the next level, but that's really not an argument as much as an assertion, unless you can support it with data. You *can't* argue that he's not extraordinarily valuable to a 2A team (which is what this post is all about) unless you focus in on games where he was injured and we don't know how much he played.

And you tried (it looks like you are now backtracking) to make the argument that his athleticism is overblown. But again, the only way you can make this argument is to compare Swoopes to smaller, lighter guys. I searched the Sparq results, and there is only one guy last year (out of what appears to be thousands/tens of thousands who were tested) of Swoopes' size who tested a faster shuttle.

When you look at the shuttle/40 times, Swoopes is on par or better than VY, Cam, and Colin Kaepernick as high schoolers.

People who made a big deal out of the 4.7 at Sparq should stop commenting on this stuff.

Not to mention the guys who base their QB evals on wins/losses in games where we don't know how much the QB played. (when there is plenty of data about offensive production in games where we know he played.) Even then, no one knows much about Swoopes' teammates. We do know that the year before he played, the team went 2-10, with their 8 losses coming by an average margin of 29 points. Then, his first year at QB as a sophomore, they pretty much just let him run and the team went 10-1 and snapped the 30 game win streak of the district's best team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/colleges/texas/story/_/id/7593869/from-small-town-comes-big-star-future-texas-longhorn-tyrone-swoopes

The next year, they tried to implement more of a passing offense, and the production dropped off a bit (but the offensive production still looks good). In the passing game, Swoopes has to rely more on his teammates. How good are they? I don't know. It's not an excuse. It's an acknowledgment that I don't have enough data.

(All of the supporting data for these assertions should be in the shaggy link I posted earlier)

Don't really have anything of substance to add, only that it's interesting how polarizing (and somewhat divisive) his recruitment has become.

ZOMGzz!!!11!!1! Real discussion with differing opinions, my brain can't take this!!!

I should have used "average" instead of "marginal". Or I could have said that his numbers were similar to the pro style QBs at the event.

It's amusing that you sit here and won't pick sides, yet are more than willing to look up when people are wrong, and then berate them. Hopefully Swoopes proves me wrong so I can be your next victim.

I'm goin with Cody Thomas if he doesn't go pro in baseball.