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close to jumping said...
texaztom--
For starters, I linked the two programs, hoops and football, in about as clear a way as one could possibly do so, and they are absolutely correlated. The machine that is the Texas AD is about generating revenue, rather than winning games, conferences, and championships. When it becomes about something other than winning, you get what you see with both programs right now. Mediocrity. Highly paid coaches who need to put asses in the seats as opposed to winning games. Both coaches received raises after their most recent disappointing seasons as well. At some point, the only way anything changes is when fans actually start giving a shit about what matters. It's not unlike voters and government.
As to your point about "excellence", what is that doing in the same sentence as Texas basketball? Do you think 13 straight seasons of making an appearance in the NCAA is excellence? Otherwise, I can't even fathom the reach for the term.
Excellence is difficult to sustain, there is no doubt. Texas football did it for over a decade and I give plenty of credit in that regard. But Texas basketball has never done it. Sniffing the Final Four once, a couple of Elite 8s and then a bunch of other ho-hummeries with no conference tourney titles and 3 conference titles is not excellence. Comparing Texas basketball to UNC basketball is so far from reality that it's not even worth further addressing. Get a grip.
And if you really believe that the money involved with all of this irrelevant, then you should take a few years off for the purposes of hunting down a clue. Money matters. It affects a person's hunger, their image of their self, and how they view the rest of the world. The same is true for programs and organizations. The notion that money is irrelevant in all of this is as close to absurd as the UT/UNC comparison.
As to the justifications from the apologists for this season, they are not viable. Part of why the players left and the program is in this spot is because Barnes ran some of them off and he failed to find suitable supporting players who would develop into 4 year values at all positions. And please, spare me the Wangmene and Chapman rebuttals. They're role players forced into starting spots. That is hardly prep by the coach for covering NBA losses.
Good is the enemy of Great, and this basketball program exemplifies that. Excellence? Please.
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close to jumping said...
texaztom--
As to the justifications from the apologists for this season, they are not viable. Part of why the players left and the program is in this spot is because Barnes ran some of them off and he failed to find suitable supporting players who would develop into 4 year values at all positions.
"Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"
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austinr said...
You know you've lost the debate when you just tell a blatant lie to try to win the argument.
What is the saying...........you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts?
The truth is the players leave early because Barnes and his staff get kids ready for the next level.......both physically and mentally. With a very few exceptions players like Thompson and Joseph spend the summer working out and going to school so they can continue to be around the program. Barnes has great relationships with his former players.
Last point you continue to say playing hard is not a big deal. If anybody plays or coaches sports at any level they know its a big deal and difficult to do on a consistent basis. So those comments by you tell me you didn't play sports but simply "observed" from the sidelines.
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Thatboyb said...
I mean i get it dude. Im fustrated as well with Barnes, but i realize football is king at this school. At UNC basketball is king there. Barnes will never face the kind of heat to win like he would at a school like Duke, UNC, Kansas. The culture is different, not saying its ok but it is what it is. Also the fact that Barnes doesnt deal with AAU dirty tactics is also another reason we miss on alot of top flight recruits. The class that he brought in this season was mediocre filled with players that are going to be good with time and development. They were not supposed to come in a be stars right away and contend for a national title.
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sundancekid said...
If this team only reaches the NIT it will be the first time, I believe, that Texas will have not made the NCAA tournament in Barnes' tenure here at Texas. The guy is class with a capital "C" and, honestly, this team could benefit a lot more from being in the NIT than a one and done in the dance. I am not a Barnes apologist and I wish he could get a new offensive coordinator and chill the heck out in that regard. He is doing a good job with what he has which I admit is his own, self created dilemma. Why is there no depth? All these questions are on Barnes and he knows it. When I saw this thread I was pleased that there was a place to have a thread focusing on the positive side of what I see going on with this team. I feel too many people are making themselves so upset about UT basketball but how many of them actually go to the games? The place was half empty for prime time ESPN. It was a great game to watch as a fan even though we lost. Missouri is better than us right now. It's not the first time. My last comment is that I think anyone getting as upset as CTJ is about this team needs to look in the mirror. This was a thread to discuss the "positive" so why hijack it, barf all over it again and again and again? I don't have enough downvotes to express my displeasure. It's painful to read so much hurt and short sidedness about this whole affair. If you have nothing good to say, start your own "negative" basketball thread, spew the way you do and see where it gets you. That's all. Peace.
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austinr said...
You know you've lost the debate when you just tell a blatant lie to try to win the argument.
What is the saying...........you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts?
The truth is the players leave early because Barnes and his staff get kids ready for the next level.......both physically and mentally. With a very few exceptions players like Thompson and Joseph spend the summer working out and going to school so they can continue to be around the program. Barnes has great relationships with his former players.
Last point you continue to say playing hard is not a big deal. If anybody plays or coaches sports at any level they know its a big deal and difficult to do on a consistent basis. So those comments by you tell me you didn't play sports but simply "observed" from the sidelines.
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Beast 512 said...
It's pretty clear I have a better understanding of how college basketball works. I don't have time to school you on it, join an actual thread sometime. No sense in going over it again with someone who isn't budging from his agenda. I'll leave you to your high horse.
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close to jumping said...
If Barnes doesn't run off Bradley, Joseph plays less, the whole program benefits, and so do, probably, the players. It isn't as if Bradley is the only guy out there who feels like Barnes did him a disservice. Muoneke feels the same and it really doesn't make a shit if they've all made peace over it, it's impacted the program. I did not tell a blatant lie. I apologize for not being black and white with you and requiring some thought to understand my position. I didn't realize that you've jumped immediately to the "you are a liar" card, which is tantamount to pulling a gun on someone in cyberland when all we have is our word. Since you brought up "debate" tactics here, I'll take the simple position that calling someone names, and especially something like "liar" is just about as cheap and weak as someone can get.
If you believe that Cory Joseph and Avery Bradley were ready when they declared because of Rick Barnes' developmental skills, then I don't know what to say other than that it made me laugh.
As to your projection at me that I've never played the games or that I was a benchwarmer if I did, I'm not going to resume read to you. Your opinion doesn't mean enough to me to justify it. You can think what you like, but it doesn't actually change anything about what I've ever done, nor does it change the basic points that have been discussed on this thread and the validity of my position with those points.
"Leadership is wisdom, courage and great carelessness of self"
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austinr said...
Runoff...................simply put quit lying. In addition try making a point without profanity. The mods asked everyone to stop with the gutter talk. I think you believe if you use gutter talk it will strengthen your argument. It doesn't ...........it just shows you really have no clue.
Yes the players mentioned benefited greatly from Barnes and staff. That is the truth and its the reason Myck and the 2012 recruiting class (as examples) came to Texas. Try reading instead of posting knee jerk lies and garbage.
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close to jumping said...
I'm using common vernacular. You are not even close to a moderator and I could not care less about your concerns over my language. I could dismantle every position you hold with or without a few cuss words, but I prefer to write how I prefer to write. If it agitates you or plays upon your feminine sensitivities, all the better.
As to the rest of it, I guess I didn't realize how completely uninformed and delusional you were when it comes to the goings on within the basketball program at Texas. Had I known how utterly lost you were, I am not sure I would have bothered responding in the first place. Don't let your ignorance continue to be a major part of your ongoing posting ineptitude, though, man. I've told no lies, you're just out of your depths.
This post was edited by austinr on 1/31/2012 at 7:30 PM
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close to jumping said...
In Rick Barnes' 13th season, this little ol'engine that could that's "played their hearts out" is going to the NIT at best, probably for a 2-and-a-Q showing or something close to it.
I am not proud of mediocrity for any program at Texas. This isn't Texas Tech or SMU. This is the richest AD in college sports by a long sight. The football program has been mediocre now for 2 years. Barnes' program has arguably been mediocre for longer. 1 Final Four appearance in 13 years, zero Big 12 tourney trophies, and multiple NBA players running through the program. These are the flagship programs at Texas and they're shitting themselves publicly and repeatedly. Meanwhile, guys continue to throw up threads with their hearts bleeding out and their voices bleating about in support of this mockery.
Maybe in year 14, Rick will put it all together. I know if he doesn't, however, there will still be plenty of folks around to apologize for him, though.
“Kansas may wind up number one in these polls, but that would be so unfair to Texas...” -- Len Elmore, 2/13/11
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Bob in Houston said...
Stagnant, possibly. At 25 wins a year and a (so far) perfect NCAA qualifying record, not mediocre.
Basically starting from scratch, they've played the best teams in the league to the last possession four times. They've faced the toughest schedule in the B12 so far.
Tough season. We did see it coming.
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close to jumping said...
Much like the guys who spend all of their time on the baseball threads on the boards, you suffer from the misconception that because I don't frequently burn daylight running over to the basketball discussions that I therefore do not know what I am typing about, yet you do. It's written in the above post, and it is hilarious. There are guys with thousands of posts on the boards who don't know jack shit about any of these sports, but they enjoy the atmosphere and conversation, so they participate. To you, participation apparently equals knowledge. To me, it equals interest, in something. The differences are dramatic in perspective.
Your perspective honestly enables you to declare that you know more than someone else in a dialogue without actually offering anything up for support of your apparent knowledge base other than "I participate in threads" and "there is a lot of luck involved in college basketball, and Rick Barnes could just use a little bit more of it".
My perspective enables me to look at your behavior and your argument and laugh. It is a loser's mentality that lives in the fantasyland of luck. It leads to the "ability" to chalk everything bad that happens to your team up to the ethereal depravity of an unjust universe while chalking everything good that happens to other programs up to the stars just aligning better for those teams.
The truth is, other teams do it better than Texas under Rick Barnes. It isn't all about talent acquisition, but acquisition plus management is a big part of it. There can be no pity party thrown for Rick Barnes when it comes to talent though. And frankly, irrespective of where anyone stands on the talent discussion, the bigger problem is what happens on the court. Barnes is inept in a number of areas. He is point blank stupid on inbounds plays and offensive coaching. He handles prima donna personnel questionably to the point of driving some of them off or into a confidence crisis or both. It's not just about talent. Rick Barnes is no better than "good" in a ton of areas. But keep praising him and defending him, man. No doubt you'll enjoy his raise coming this offseason as well. "For recruiting purposes", of course.
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close to jumping said...
I'm using common vernacular. You are not even close to a moderator and I could not care less about your concerns over my language. I could dismantle every position you hold with or without a few cuss words, but I prefer to write how I prefer to write. If it agitates you or plays upon your feminine sensitivities, all the better.
As to the rest of it, I guess I didn't realize how completely uninformed and delusional you were when it comes to the goings on within the basketball program at Texas. Had I known how utterly lost you were, I am not sure I would have bothered responding in the first place. Don't let your ignorance continue to be a major part of your ongoing posting ineptitude, though, man. I've told no lies, you're just out of your depths.
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close to jumping said...
Your perspective honestly enables you to declare that you know more than someone else in a dialogue without actually offering anything up for support of your apparent knowledge base other than "I participate in threads" and "there is a lot of luck involved in college basketball, and Rick Barnes could just use a little bit more of it".
My perspective enables me to look at your behavior and your argument and laugh. It is a loser's mentality that lives in the fantasyland of luck. It leads to the "ability" to chalk everything bad that happens to your team up to the ethereal depravity of an unjust universe while chalking everything good that happens to other programs up to the stars just aligning better for those teams.
The truth is, other teams do it better than Texas under Rick Barnes. It isn't all about talent acquisition, but acquisition plus management is a big part of it. There can be no pity party thrown for Rick Barnes when it comes to talent though. And frankly, irrespective of where anyone stands on the talent discussion, the bigger problem is what happens on the court. Barnes is inept in a number of areas. He is point blank stupid on inbounds plays and offensive coaching. He handles prima donna personnel questionably to the point of driving some of them off or into a confidence crisis or both. It's not just about talent. Rick Barnes is no better than "good" in a ton of areas. But keep praising him and defending him, man. No doubt you'll enjoy his raise coming this offseason as well. "For recruiting purposes", of course.
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